DE Talk | Shifting from the Great Resignation to the Great Retention

The Great Resignation continues to affect employers large and small as they grapple with how to address this ongoing talent concern. Tune in as entrepreneur, author, and podcaster, Lorraine Ball, discusses how focusing on culture-building, connection, and proactive recruitment can prevent the churn of employee turnover and create a place where people want to work.

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About DE Talk

For DirectEmployers, it’s all about valuable connections and meaningful conversations. This monthly podcast features honest and open dialogue between powerhouse industry experts on a variety of HR topics ranging from OFCCP compliance advice to emerging recruitment marketing trends, diversity and inclusion initiatives, and insightful solutions that help infuse new life into your HR strategies.

Hosted by Candee Chambers, Executive Director of DirectEmployers Association.

Episode Guest

Episode Transcript

Candee Chambers:
Welcome to the DE Talk Podcast. Tune in for dialogue between HR experts to amp up your HR strategies. Don’t worry, we’ll mix in a few laughs, as we know you need it.

The Great Resignation continues to be a theme for employers, large and small, as they grapple with how to address this ongoing talent concern. For many, it’s been a wake up call for how to improve elements like culture, flexibility, and benefits. While others have chosen to focus on employee engagement as a way to prevent the churn of employee turnover. It’s natural for employees to come and go, but the pandemic has forever impacted the relationship employees have with their employers and even the priorities they place on work-life balance. As diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, continue to drive workplace hiring efforts, the question remains, how do we shift the mindset from the Great Resignation to the Great Retention?

This conversation remains near and dear to my heart. As a former HR practitioner, and now the leader of an HR trade association, I know many listeners also share in this struggle and wonder what’s next. Joining me today is Indianapolis-based marketing strategist, educator, and podcast host herself, Lorraine Ball, who is equally as passionate about this topic as me, and even has taken to LinkedIn to share her thoughts and suggestions on transforming your workplace to create an environment where people want to work. Let’s dive in and get started! Lorraine, welcome to the DE Talk Podcast. We’re really happy to have you join us today.

Lorraine Ball:
It is so nice to be here. Thank you for the invitation.

Candee Chambers:
This is a topic, as I said, it’s near and dear to my heart, but everyone I talk to, this is a main topic of conversation. It’s kind of like the old fashioned conversation starters where we had to be creative and this is its own conversation starter. So why don’t we start by having you just share a little bit about yourself?

Lorraine Ball:
So I started my career actually as a school teacher. I have a background in elementary ed and then went back for a degree in marketing. And so I have these segments of my life. And then I spent about 20 years in corporate, primarily in marketing and creative roles. But the thing I was always brought in to do was to fix broken teams. And so I really built this attitude around lessons that I learned about how you created teams that worked. So that was my goal when I left and started my own business. And I don’t know if you remember, but in the early 2000s, unlike today, there were more jobs than people. And so companies really were not very concerned about employee retention.

And so here I was with this idea that I could teach leaders to build high performance teams and ain’t nobody buying. So I dropped back, I knew marketing and that’s what I built my business around. But I also always focused on using the technique that I had perfected in corporate to build my own team. And that’s really where my passion comes because it works. You can build organizations where people are interested, passionate, and committed, but you have to be interested, passionate, committed too.

Candee Chambers:
You had a really important point, but you’re exactly right. I’m kind of on the cusp between baby boomer and gen X. But years ago, they didn’t really care about stuff like that in corporate America. And I’ve spent almost my entire career in corporate America and I’ve seen the change and now having a much smaller nonprofit, we have fun together, and we collaborate well together and we are very team driven and we collaborate all the time. But what’s interesting is even before 2000 it was just like, “Get the work done, get the work done. I don’t care what it takes, just get the work done.” And it’s a whole different attitude today. It was something I hadn’t thought about for a long time, but you’re exactly right. So I commented about you being a host of your own podcast. It’s called More than a Few Words. I’m shocked at how you’ve sharpened it down to a 10 minute conversation. Maybe you can give me some lessons. But what has inspired you and what is your favorite thing about podcasting?

Lorraine Ball:
So More than a Few Words, it started with the advent of the iPhone. I got this shiny new iPhone and I could record conversations. And I had an intern at the time who was like, “You were really made for podcasting. You like to talk.” And so I would just whip out that phone when people came to the office and the show was very unstructured and it has evolved. I’m in my 13th year now. And I’ve experimented with all sorts of formats. And what I have come to, because I look at the user data is that a lot of my audience, they are small business owners and they’re busy and they’re listening to the shows probably while they’re doing something else, maybe in their car, between. And so the listeners fall off after about 10 to 12 minutes.

Candee Chambers:
Okay. That’s really interesting – maybe we should listen.

Lorraine Ball:
Yeah. Because what happens is you get to your destination or you get interrupted and people don’t go back. And so that was part of the motivation to try to keep the episodes short. And the other thing it’s inspired, you’ve probably heard this quote. “I was going to write you a short note, but I didn’t have time. So I wrote you a long letter instead.” And what I have found with a lot of longer podcasts is you weave around because you have the time, and you eventually get to that great nugget.

Candee Chambers:
We’re going to just make this be a little bit longer Lorraine. So you have to hang onto that nugget for about 30 minutes.

Lorraine Ball:
I’m going to treat this like three 10-minute episodes. How’s that?

Candee Chambers:
That’s perfect. That’s perfect. And actually just this morning I read Harvard Business Review said, you need to come up with ways to help your employees get through things that they don’t want to do. We all have those types of tasks that you just think, “Oh geez, do I really have to do that?” But they say, listen to podcasts, listen to music, do things while you’re filing or while you’re putting something away, cleaning your office, whatever it is, but use that time effectively. And then the time goes faster for one thing. And you’re also kind of educating yourself on the other hand. So there you go, you can listen to absolutely three, 10-minute DE Podcasts. There you go!

Might as well just get right into the topic. It’s safe to say the business owners from the Fortune 500 to the mom and pop shops across the country have had to experience the fallout from the Great Resignation. So let’s start here a second. The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that over 47 million Americans quit their jobs. That’s like the most on record. I’m sitting here wondering how people are going to live down the road. How would you describe the Great Resignation and how can employers mitigate the impact of it?

Lorraine Ball:
Well, as I’m looking at this and it’s interesting because my daughter was actually one of the people, she was one of the 47 million. And so watching her go through her transition and she’s in her mid 30s. And so this was not an early stage career shift. And I don’t know that everybody makes the shift quite the way she did, but she knew how long she could take to find her next job. And she was selective.

And so watching her go through this process, what I saw was that she very quickly rejected a lot of companies and then she zeroed in on a few companies. And the ones that really impressed her and the ones that she wanted to continue the conversations with were the companies that talked about the whole person. They had opportunities for advancement. They wanted to get to know her. They had an onboarding process. The days of hiring someone and throwing them into a job, that doesn’t work. People are not going to put up with it and they’re not going to stay around long if they don’t feel like they can be successful.

Candee Chambers:
Yeah. And if something better comes along, they’re going to keep looking. We’ve seen that throughout HR and I’m sure your marketing background has touched HR a lot as well. But it’s interesting because you know, I’m sure as well as I do, that if people need money, they’re going to take whatever comes to them first. But they’re going to sure keep looking.

Lorraine Ball:
Yeah. And one of the things, and this was even before the Great Resignation, one of the things that I saw that was changing was, as the power shifted, there used to be some unwritten rules. When you were looking for a job, once you accepted an offer, even go back a step, agreed to come in for an interview. And as I talk to peers, I’m hearing that people don’t show up for interviews.

Candee Chambers:
Oh, yeah.

Lorraine Ball:
Accept jobs and then get a better offer. I think it’s really hard, but I think companies need to be hedging their backs the way employees do. Interview multiple candidates. Have a first, second, and third choice and don’t cut your second and third choice completely loose until you know for sure that the first choice is actually going to-

Candee Chambers:
Show up.

Lorraine Ball:
To show up and take the job. And then I think you always have to be recruiting.

Honestly, my favorite quote that I read probably five or 10 years ago, and I always think about this, and the quote was, or is, re-recruit your employees every day.

Lorraine Ball:
I love that!

Candee Chambers:
Yeah. I thought that was a great quote because you want your employees to want to come to work and you want your employees to be part of the whole mission and the whole work process. And I think that’s a great quote and I try to follow that. I don’t want you to ask the employees here, but Jordan’s smiling at me. So hopefully I do that. She’s got a thumbs up, so that’s good.

Lorraine Ball:
Absolutely.

Candee Chambers:
Go ahead. Go ahead.

Lorraine Ball:
I was going to agree with you because I think that speaks to this idea of creating a place where people want to come to work.

Candee Chambers:
Exactly. I’ve been watching and I try to read, what’s important to do. It’s always fun because our marketing team is just, I think the best of the best. And every time I read things about, well, how to keep your employees engaged and how to take care of your employees during the pandemic, try this, this, this, and this. And it’s like, well, our marketing team is already doing that. Thank you very much.

But I will tell you, I think two things, it was interesting when you were talking about your own daughter. My daughter, mid 30s, a little bit younger than that, but very close. And she actually left her position to go through a doctor of physical therapy program. She had been an athletic trainer and I never thought about it until you were talking about your daughter and taking the time to find what she really wanted. But she’s probably included in that Great Resignation because it happened about a year and a half ago and boom, she went to school and she’s doing that for two and a half years. So that’s probably part of the Great Resignation as well.

So yeah, there are, I’m sure a lot of types of folks. Do you think that there are certain industries that have been impacted more than others? I know my daughter was in healthcare by the time she was working for the Cleveland Clinic in orthopedics. But I’m sure aside from healthcare, do you think there are other industries that have been impacted a lot more than others?

Lorraine Ball:
What I’ve read, is that a lot of the industries that are filled with what we would consider essential workers are probably some of the ones that have seen the greatest turnover. Medical professionals, teachers, these are people that were really pushed to their limits during the pandemic. And so I think their decision to leave, change jobs, change careers is probably directly connected or much more so connected to the pandemic and the lingering and effects of the pandemic than maybe other industries. But I also think even prior to the pandemic, there was a shift in, I don’t want to refer to it as work ethic because it’s not that young professionals don’t work as hard as us boomers and gen X, but they work differently.

Candee Chambers:
Yeah, they do.

Lorraine Ball:
And there is a shift in what they want from a job and from a career. And I think the pandemic certainly accelerated that and gave them a chance to think about it a little bit more. And it also gave them an opportunity to have conversations with their employers that would never have been possible before. I’ll give you a personal example. I loved the fact that my agency was an in-person agency. We had an office in a little house, it was very cozy. People came in, they came and left, there was a lot of flexibility in terms of when they worked. But for the most part, we were there. And I really thought that was the most productive environment.

And the pandemic forced us home and we adapted. And then we came back and what I saw when we came back was that there were certain members of the team that were like, “Lorraine, I get more done at home.” And in the past I would’ve said, “No, no, no, you have to be here.” But having lived through the pandemic as an employer and having employees who could demonstrate to me that was true, we redefined the structure of the work and when you had to be in the office. And I think having the ammunition of the examples of what they did accomplish remotely, allowed a lot of people to have those conversations and companies that were not willing to have those conversations are struggling.

Candee Chambers:
Well, I never lose the opportunity to tell the employees here at DE that I was wrong. We have a monthly what we call All-Hands Meeting and I was that old fashioned, you have to be in the office to work. And I even have people that remind me that I say it wrong, when I say return to work. They’re like, well, we already were working at home. It’s like, oh yeah, crap, I didn’t say that right. Return to the office to work. But we’ve had our two most successful years on record during the two years of the pandemic. Now, what type of a leader would I be if I said, okay, now everybody has to come back to the office. Do I not want to be successful or do I just not care?

And so now what I’m saying, and I do wholeheartedly hope that people, just like you said, want to come back. And I have people that are coming back periodically and not every day, but it’s fun to see people, and it’s fun to interact. And I think for the people that have come back, they’ve said the same thing. It’s fun to reach out and just chit chat a little bit and talk and see one another. We had our annual meeting in San Diego two weeks ago and it was just so nice to see people face to face, and we miss out on that.

Lorraine Ball:
I always felt like what you call the “water cooler conversations”, back when I was in corporate, I had a job where the floor that I was on, it was one great big circle. And so twice a day I’d get up and I would just walk the circle and I would chit chat as I made my way around the circle. And I could talk about projects, I could talk about meetings coming up, I could see people just on the fly without scheduling a time to talk. And that was very productive time. I do think you miss some of that, but I also think that today’s workers have, to some extent, adapted, and I’ll give you another example from our culture. We were in this very little house. And so we all loved it. And there were dogs and cats and it was very, very lively, but sometimes you just needed to get work done.

And so you put your headphones on and you worked. Well, if somebody had their headphones on and you wanted to have a conversation with someone else, you didn’t want to be rude. So there was a lot of G Chatting that went on. They were sitting across the room from each other and they were G Chatting, telling jokes, sharing a story because it was polite. And if it was something that everybody needed to share, then they just said it out loud. Well, we go home, they already had this G Chat culture established. And so the chat would run all day and people would just put comments in it. And it wasn’t the same as being there, but it really had a lot of the same flavor. And you still felt very connected.

Candee Chambers:
Well, and we do that with Slack and we have teams that have their own channels. And then we have general channels, good news channels, industry news channels. And it is fun to have people… We had a baby born last night from one of our employees. They put pictures out, and then everybody comments. And we do share all of that, and the fun part with Zoom, and we all love and hate Zoom, I think sometimes. But we’ve learned employees’ pets names and we children’s names. And that adds just another piece of personalization that we’ve been able to accomplish, which has been nice. It really has. And we can even recognize certain dogs’ barks. It’s like, “Okay, I know who that is. That’s Lola, or that’s Jaime’s dog.” We always know when it’s Lola. She’s a beautiful German shepherd.

So anyway, we could probably chit chat forever, but let’s shift gears a little bit. The Great Resignation you hear everybody talk about. It feels kind of like doom and gloom. But I’m sure it can be difficult for a lot who struggle to fill their open jobs, a lot of employers. But it does create that opportunity for employers to reevaluate their own workplace cultures, their practices, priorities, and to focus on retaining that top talent. So what do you think, or what have you heard that the reasons employees are citing for leaving the workplace in the first place?

Lorraine Ball:
Well, I think on the one hand, there’s a level of burnout. Really and truly, I think a lot of the reasons are very similar to things I’ve heard before. They feel underappreciated, they’re not challenged by what they do. And I think you have to look at maybe not why people are leaving, but why do they stay? And when you talk to people about why they stay, and I think this is really the lesson for companies is. I love the people I work with. I love the culture. Well, what makes up culture? And I think a lot of managers think that it’s their job to create the culture. And I think really when you turn it around on the team and you ask them what they want, or you ask them that very question, why do you work here? Or, if you could sum up who we are in three words, what would you choose? And then, listen.

I started the business when it was just me and I had three phrases that I thought described the company I wanted, to build creativity, collaboration, and positive energy. That was what I wanted. And so I sometimes didn’t tell new employees right away that was sort of my core. And I let them experience the culture for a while. And then we would have that conversation. And it’s so interesting that 10, 15 years into the business, those same synonyms, maybe not exactly those words, but those synonyms were still part of who we were because as people came on board, we kind of embraced them, there was a way of interacting, there was a way of treating customers and each other that just perpetuated that. But the employees, also over time, had some phrases that I never, never really envisioned as part of what I did, but they were passionate about it. And instead of saying, no, no, that’s not what we were about, when faced with three people who’re like, “Lorraine, this is what the company’s about.” I’m like, “Okay, I guess this is what the company’s about.”

Candee Chambers:
And again, I wholeheartedly agree with your comment. You really need to listen. And my favorite phrase is, “Listen to hear, don’t listen to respond.” Really listen to what people are saying. And I have this kind of a quote requirement that if there’s a problem, by all means, come and tell me about the problem, but don’t ever come in without a proposed solution because I want to hear you’re the expert in that area or whatever area the problem might be. But if it’s a real problem, I know that when I think of something that should be fixed at home, I’ve got a thought of how I’m going to fix it, and that’s worked really well. I think people do need to feel like they’re being listened to.

I was laughing when you first started talking about culture. I think back to 20 years ago, as you were mentioning earlier, when people would say this is going to be our culture. And I would say, you find it as silly as I do. It’s like, no, that’s not what builds a culture. You have to work together to build your culture. Your LinkedIn article covered a lot of those topics as well that you were just talking about and taking responsibility for your team’s satisfaction and always be recruiting that you mentioned before. It’s kind of like making a marriage work. You’ve got to make a business work. You can’t just sit back and rest on your laurels.

Lorraine Ball:
And I think one of the other points that I made that I think is really important is once you have a culture that you really like, and your employees really like, you need to be very careful about who you hire. And right now, as employees are being very selective, I think managers are sometimes panicking and hiring someone because they will take the job and because they have the skills. And that’s just not enough. I went through a period, I had two employees who… You’re familiar with Winnie-the-Pooh?

Candee Chambers:
Oh yeah.

Lorraine Ball:
Okay. I had not one, but two, Eeyores. This isn’t going to work. And I don’t know how I missed it in the interview. Maybe they were on happy steroids or something during the interview, or maybe I just was so desperate I looked past it. But the longer they stayed, the more they pulled. They sucked the energy out of the room. And I was very fortunate because both of them found other jobs and I didn’t have to have the conversation with them that their energy was just really not a fit for ours. But I did appreciate that when they left, we hired one Tigger and one Pooh, and it was a beautiful thing. Just the shift in energy that it was like a lightness. And Eeyore is lovable in his own way in small doses, but not in a small office.

Candee Chambers:
Exactly, exactly. And that’s one thing. I’ve often said that I don’t care how successful a person is if they can’t be a team player or get along and support their coworkers, that’s a problem as well.

Lorraine Ball:
Oh, absolutely.

Candee Chambers:
We’ve got to have teams that work together and you need to have that respect, that mutual respect in an organization is what I’ve learned. But I was talking about our marketing team and some of the things that they did when we went remote March 13th, 2020, that day will forever be in my mind. But what suggestions do you have that employers could consider for engaging workers and making them feel like they were more valued and connected?

Lorraine Ball:
One of the things that we did and this works, I think when you’re in an organization that’s more of a sales organization, but I think you can turn it around and do projects instead of customers. I opened it up and I asked everyone to make a list. If we could only work with three customers, who would they pick? And if we were going to fire one customer, who would they fire?

And I think you can do it with projects. If we only take on three projects and if we eliminated one task. And what was so interesting is we built the list of the customers that everybody wanted to keep, and there was some names that kept popping up and we pulled those side. And those were the ones we then had a conversation around, how do we get more of those? What is it about those customers that we like. And really let the team express, they respect our time, the work is challenging, it’s an interesting product, I love working with food companies. Whatever it was, suddenly we developed a picture of our ideal client and it wasn’t demographically based, it wasn’t statistical. It was based on, these are the things we do well. This is the kind of work we like to do and these are the companies we want to work with. And then we developed marketing plans to get more of those clients. So everybody on the team felt really connected to that project.

Candee Chambers:
That’s funny because again, I think with some of the activities that our marketing team came up with it actually, I mean I can tell it, but it brought people closer together and it helped build a collaboration and the culture that we have today. And I’m pretty pleased with the culture that we have. I think by doing that in your own organization, you made everyone feel connected and like their opinion mattered. And that’s incredibly important because as I said earlier, they want to be listened to. And we do surveys and whenever somebody makes a comment that, “I wish I could say this,” well then it’s like, “Okay, well we need to address that.” I’m a firm, a proponent of, if you do a survey, you have to respond to the results, good or bad. You need to act on what you find out. But how do you think employers can embrace that flexibility in their own culture?

Lorraine Ball:
I think every employer needs to maybe divide the decisions that have to be made every day into what I would call the one right answer or the multiple options. And when it comes to something that there’s three different ways you can approach a problem. And there’s not really a clear right answer any one of the solutions will work. Bring your team together, have them hash it out and then let them pick the final solution. If it’s viable, they will have way more energy, way more passion at making that project successful because it was their idea. Then simply executing the one that you pick because you think that’s the right answer.

Candee Chambers:
That’s really good advice. it’s like I said, too, they’re the experts. You don’t know. I mean, maybe you do, but if it’s in their area of work, they should be the experts. That’s what you’re paying them for.

Lorraine Ball:
Absolutely. And as a manager or a business owner, hire people that are smarter than you, and be okay with that. And don’t just pay that lip service. My graphic designers can design circles around me. I’m a production artist. My skill is being able to look at something, provide feedback, translate what the customer is saying into a direction for the designer and then get out of their way.

Candee Chambers:
It’s funny. I was on the phone today with three technical developers and they were asking me questions and I just said, “Well, this is great. This is great. What I would recommend here is…” I can give feedback, but they can tell me how it can be done. I can’t tell them how to do it, but I can tell them what I want to have in the process, and then they’ll be creative and come up with a way of doing it.

Lorraine Ball:
Absolutely. And if you hire technical experts, my web team, these were technical experts, then invest in them building their technical skills. When somebody on my design team came and said, “Hey, I’d like to go to this seminar. I’d like to register for this course. I’m going to learn X, Y, and Z.” I was like, “Yeah, if we can afford.” I mean, and we were a small company, so they weren’t going to $5,000 conferences on my nickel. But we were a WordPress shop and there was a Word Camp in Ohio or Cincinnati or Louisville. And I’m like, take the weekend, go take the days off next week because what they learn, number one, it was invaluable and we got the benefit of that. But then on the other hand, they felt valued and they believed, and rightly so, because I really did mean this, that I was interested in them for the long term.

Candee Chambers:
And that is incredibly important. I’m listening to you talking and it sounds like you empower your employees a lot, which they always say that empowered employees are happier employees, or are just happy employees. I’m sure that has helped with your retention as well. Correct?

Lorraine Ball:
Oh, absolutely. And full confession, I sold the agency a year ago.

Candee Chambers:
Oh really?

Lorraine Ball:
Yeah. And so now I do online training and I do the podcast, but during the 20 years that I had the company, yes, there were some people that came and went because that’s the nature of the design business.

Candee Chambers:
Right.

Lorraine Ball:
And that’s the nature of hiring young professionals right out of school. They’re going to try for well… But my web designer was with me for seven years, my graphic designer, the one who was with me the longest, she was with me for eight years. And part of the successful transition so we didn’t have that disruption, was having open honest conversations with these employees about what they wanted to do long term. I knew for a year that my web designer, who was with me for seven years, was going to leave. I knew he was looking for other jobs. We talked about interview strategies. We talked about what he was looking for and why he would want to do what he did. And in return for that environment where he could talk about that, he gave me some really amazing gifts. He documented and detailed his process. He wrote the job description for the persons that needed to replace him. And we talked very honestly about the fact that it was not going to be a clone of him, that the organization had changed and that we needed different things.

Candee Chambers:
That’s pretty incredible to get that type of insight and willingness to. But then again, not everybody leaves because they’re unhappy with the organization. We have, knock on wood, I don’t ever want to take advantage of this, but we really don’t have hardly any turnover at all. We lost a person a month or so ago, and it was because he was offered a job of a lifetime and it was something he’d always wanted to do. And he called me personally to tell me, and I said, “I would never stand in somebody’s way for that ever.” But we haven’t lost anybody else in over a year or longer. But I’m not going to stand in somebody’s way. And he’s available for consultation if we need him and those are the types of relationships that you want. So you have a small organization, I have a small organization, and I think we probably are pretty close in how we see things and manage the businesses. But what are other ways that maybe larger employers can show that they value their employees? What are your thoughts?

Lorraine Ball:
I think in any job, you want to continue to feel challenged and engaged. And maybe the job that the person has is fairly stagnant, but the person is not stagnant. And so look for opportunities to create committees and teams to address issues. My daughter was at Delta for five years, the plumbing company, and I thought they did a really fabulous job. She was on the supply chain team and that was her primary job. But they always had these Six Sigma teams that were popping up and process improvement teams. And her boss would encourage her, “They need somebody with your organizational skills on that project. I’m going to recommend they put you on that team,” or “I think if you join this committee, they meet during work hours and it’s on diversity and inclusion. Why don’t you participate on that committee?” It gave her an opportunity to flex her muscle in different ways. It gave her an opportunity to meet other people in the company.

Candee Chambers:
Gave her some visibility.

Lorraine Ball:
Gave her some visibility. She was there for five years before she made a shift. And I think in this day and age five years, if an employer has somebody that stays five years, they should count themselves lucky because the world is changing very, very quickly. And so I think in larger organizations, don’t pigeonhole your people. There are all sorts of things that have to get done that are really managed by any department, but still have to happen.

Candee Chambers:
You’re exactly right. And there are times when people will suggest we need somebody to do this, or we need somebody to do that. And I have some ideas of making some suggestions on things like that myself, but you’re exactly right. And that’s something that people don’t normally think about. They just think about it just gets done, but they don’t really think about how or who does it. It’s just an extra responsibility that somebody else just absorbs. But there’s so many of those extra responsibilities, it can probably take one person to do all those extra responsibilities.

Lorraine Ball:
I was going to say, or you have these responsibilities and you bring a team together and it’s not a permanent team.

Candee Chambers:
Exactly.

Lorraine Ball:
But you have a team. You bring a team together of people who are impacted by antiquated software or a process that’s the same for 20 years and doesn’t quite work so well. You put them in a room for two days, and out comes amazing recommendations.

Candee Chambers:
You’re exactly right. I talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion and including people with disabilities in that metric. And just the different frames of reference and the different perspectives that you can gather when you bring people that aren’t best friends together. I did that with a team of four individuals to develop our business continuity plan. People from four different departments and our outside security consultants, cybersecurity consultants, said it was a best business continuity plan he’d ever seen.

I just picked people that I thought would devote themselves to doing a good job. And I’m going to take credit for having picked well, but I didn’t do anything, they did it all. So I’m only taking credit in choosing the right people. I could have easily chosen four other people that probably would’ve done an equally good job, but it was just kind of a neat exercise because I just said, “Here’s what I want you guys to do, and you figure it out.” And they did an amazing job. So one last thing, I think you’ve done a little research on us and helping employers expand their recruitment brand and career site visibility is something that we’re obviously passionate about. How do you think that employers can use their career site as part of their efforts to market themselves to potential candidates?

Lorraine Ball:
Oh my goodness. So this is so critical because this is the first introduction. I think you need to think about your career site with as much energy as you think about the landing page and the marketing page of your website for customers. Because those potential employees, you need to treat them like customers.

Candee Chambers:
That’s an interesting statement. I agree. That’s a really good statement. You need to write that down, Jordan.

Lorraine Ball:
But I think you need to think about why would someone want to work with you? And it’s the same challenge that I think business owners have when they have to answer the question, why should I buy from you? And I’ll give you a clue. It ain’t about you, it’s about them. And so on your employee site, you need to lead with not how much money they’re going to make and what the job responsibilities are. Get to that later. If you want me to be excited about your company, be excited, be interesting. Tell me what’s in it for me. If you are starting out your career, you are going to be paired with experienced professionals who are going to be able to give you insight, train you and give you opportunities to learn and grow on your own. If you’re in the middle of your career, ready for that next step, we have opportunities that allow you to mentor other people, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If you are a senior executive, we want to tap into your expertise because we want to learn from you.

Candee Chambers:
Wow. So this is going to be a public podcast, but Jordan is part of our Recruit Rooster team and they develop career websites. So we’re sitting here shaking our heads going, oh my gosh, that’s incredible. So I’m going to ask you if I can take a little bit, piece out of your comments for a testimonial, or not a testimonial, but kind of a suggestion.

Lorraine Ball:
Absolutely.

Candee Chambers:
Treating applicants like customers, that I think is brilliant. I really do so. Thank you for that. You were right, you’re saving that nugget. That was kind of the nugget for almost the very end. So it was brilliant. That was really something. But any final thoughts you’d like to share? We’ve covered a lot.

Lorraine Ball:
We have covered a lot. I guess what I would say in closing is if you are an astute leader or an astute manager, one of the best things to do is to watch the body language of people as they walk into the building. Now I know this is harder to do when everyone is remote. And I haven’t quite figured out exactly how to do this over Zoom. But I had a guy, he would walk through the door and his body would just collapse in. He didn’t even realize he hated the job. It was his first job out of college. But he wasn’t any good at it. And I finally pulled him into my office and I said, “You don’t love this. It’s so obvious. Let’s talk about why and let’s talk about what will make you love this.” If you think you’ve built this great culture, that’s a really good process check to just watch people as they come into the building.

Candee Chambers:
That’s a really good point.

Lorraine Ball:
Do they smile? Do they look around or do they put their game face on? And you can see it. And I understand that not everybody reads body language well, that the art of visual cues is lost on some people. Find someone who’s good at it and station them near the door.

Candee Chambers:
Exactly. That’s interesting. Yeah, that’s a really good point. Well, okay. I like to end on a fun note on all of our podcasts and I’m going to give you five rapid fire questions to help our listeners get to know you just a little bit better on a personal level. So all you have to do is say the very first thing that comes to mind. All right. Are you ready?

Lorraine Ball:
Okay. I’m ready.

Candee Chambers:
Okay. All right. What is your favorite quote?

Lorraine Ball:
My favorite quote is, “You can’t build a reputation on what you’re going to do.” It’s by Henry Ford, and it has sat on my desk for 30 years.

Candee Chambers:
There you go. I like that. That’s a good one. All right. Coffee or tea?

Lorraine Ball:
Coffee.

Candee Chambers:
Me too. When are you the most productive?

Lorraine Ball:
First thing in the morning and very late at night.

Candee Chambers:
Wow. When do you sleep? That wasn’t one of the questions. This one I think is kind of funny and I’ll tell you my thoughts after you answer it. If you could eat only one food for a week, what would it be?

Lorraine Ball:
Chocolate.

Candee Chambers:
So I was sitting here looking at that going, I don’t know if it would be chocolate or wine. I was like, I can’t live on wine.

Lorraine Ball:
I can’t live on wine, but I can live on chocolate.

Candee Chambers:
Exactly. You and I have got to meet face to face because I think we’d have a lot of fun.

Lorraine Ball:
I think so.

Candee Chambers:
All right. Very last one, left or right brained?

Lorraine Ball:
I’m kind of a two humped camel with nothing in between. I have this very, very creative side, which would make people think that very left brain, very out there, kind of flaky. And then I have the part of me that was going to be a math major. So very quantitative. But the skills in the middle of that don’t exist.

Candee Chambers:
That’s funny. Okay. So you’re kind of in between, kind of the ambidextrous. You’re a little bit left-brained, a little bit right-brained.

Lorraine Ball:
Yes, but none of the middle skills.

Candee Chambers:
Okay. All right. Well that works. That makes you unique. There’s always good in unique. So honestly, Lorraine, it’s been such a pleasure talking to you today and gaining a new perspective on how employers can best support their employees and hopefully combat the Great Resignation by focusing more inward on their efforts and trying to take care of their employees. If our listeners would like to get in touch with you, what’s the best way to do that.

Lorraine Ball:
I think the very best way is reach out on LinkedIn. Connect, say hello, tell me that you heard this interview, I would love to chat. You can also listen to More than a Few Words, wherever you listen to podcasts.

Candee Chambers:
And there you go. So if you listen to this one, then go listen to hers, More than a Few Words, and that works great.

Lorraine Ball:
Awesome.

Candee Chambers:
I really appreciated this, Lorraine. This has been a lot of fun and you and I are going to hook up. You’re right here in Indianapolis. And so we’re going to have to get together and maybe have some chocolate and wine for a treat after work one day.

Lorraine Ball:
I think that would be fabulous. I’m going to hold you to it.

Candee Chambers:
All right. Sounds good.

Lorraine Ball:
Thank you so much.

Candee Chambers:
Thank you, Lorraine. This has been great.

Thank you for tuning in for another episode of the DE Talk Podcast. Stay connected with DirectEmployers on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn and subscribe to our emails by visiting DirectEmployers.org/subscribe to receive notifications of new episodes each month.

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