DE Talk | Top 5 Actions to Take After You Complete Your Affirmative Action Plan

What comes next after you file your annual affirmative action plan? In this episode of the DE Talk podcast, experts from OutSolve provide practical guidance on the most important actions to take and the importance of compliance as a year-round focus, not just a one-time and done activity. Tune in as they share real-world, actionable advice related to adverse impact analysis, outreach strategies, organizational training, and much more!

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About DE Talk

For DirectEmployers, it’s all about valuable connections and meaningful conversations. This monthly podcast features honest and open dialogue between powerhouse industry experts on a variety of HR topics ranging from OFCCP compliance advice to emerging recruitment marketing trends, diversity and inclusion initiatives, and insightful solutions that help infuse new life into your HR strategies.

Hosted by Candee Chambers, Executive Director of DirectEmployers Association.

Episode Guest

Episode Transcript

Candee Chambers:

Get Ready. The De Talk Podcast starts now. Insightful conversations and dialogue, helping you put the human factor back in HR.

What comes next after you file your Annual Affirmative Action Plan? In this episode, I sat down with experts from OutSolve as they shared practical guidance on the most important actions to take and the importance of compliance as a year-round focus, not just a one-time and done activity. Diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging continues to lead HR conversations and forward-focus strategies. But one often overlooked starting point for growth and improvement is your Annual Affirmative Action Plan, which can illustrate where you’re excelling as an organization and where improvement is needed. Today I have the pleasure of welcoming two experts on the topic of Affirmative Action planning. Chris Lindholm and Desiree Throckmorton from OutSolve. Welcome Chris and Desiree. It was absolutely wonderful having you two, and the OutSolve team join us at DEAMcon23 in April. I really apologize, I had barely any time to chat running back and forth as the MC, but I hope you had a great experience. So tell me about that first time that you were at DEAMcon. Tell me about your experience.

Desiree Throckmorton:

I’d say that I really enjoyed the size of the conference and the location was fantastic. I think there was a lot of time in between sessions to get to know your Members and interact, and I felt like the sessions had a lot of really quality content.

Candee Chambers:

You’re not the first person that commented about the size of the conference, and it does lend a great opportunity for people to really get to know each other. And somebody even commented that they look forward to meeting people and then talking with them year after year. So, I’m glad you said the same thing. So Chris, what about you?

Chris Lindholm:

I had a slightly different perspective from the side of coming out of the pandemic. I think everybody’s wondering, “Well geez, what are conferences like now? Can people still go?” And we were very pleasantly surprised by not only the turnout at the conference but the way that it flowed, the way that people had a chance to interact. And it felt very casual and lively at the same time. And everyone on the OutSolve team said, “This is how you do it.” Clear and simple. We really enjoyed it.

Candee Chambers:

Oh, that’s great news. That really makes me happy to hear that. Of course, I might be biased, but I really do believe that our conferences is unique from other industry events. I mean from the lineup of speakers to the food and the networking, it creates an inclusive, inviting environment for Members and guests alike. I don’t know if you heard me comment about the vibe that I just felt throughout the conference. Everybody was engaged and happy and participative and what else can you ask for?

So let’s dive into today’s discussion. One that really speaks to my roots in HR and that’s Affirmative Action planning. In a previous role, actually a couple of previous roles, I handled this function and it still holds a special place in my heart because of how much impact it can have on your actions moving forward.

Whether you outsource your AAPs or handle them in-house, and I’ve done both, it’s important to use them as a reference point and guide throughout the year, not just file it away and check the box. It’s not one-and-done and it’s not a doorstop. So we’re going to be talking about what to do after you complete your Affirmative Action plan. And we’re going to focus on investigating areas of adverse impact, assessing differences uncovered during pay equity analysis, developing outreach strategy with goals established for minorities, females, and with the benchmark for hiring for veterans and the utilization goal for individuals with disabilities, evaluating outreach activities for effectiveness, and ensuring training of all stakeholders. So I am going to let you guys just do a lot of talking. I’ll switch you from topic to topic, but let’s first see how you narrowed these topics down or these five items as things you’d like to discuss. Chris, want to kick us off?

Chris Lindholm:

Yeah, hi. Yeah, well that’s a lot to discuss, but I think I’ll start at a somewhat high level and I’ll let Desiree kind of get down into the trenches because we support a high volume of Affirmative Action planning. But I’m on the business development side of the house. I’m one of the people who interacts with contractors who are newer to this space on a weekly basis, including people who are moving from different organizations, things of that nature. And I always tell them, I quote them something that a consultant told me years ago that Candee… And I’m sure you hear those quotes, these things that stick with you. And I tell… Because they talk about affirmative act… “Oh, it’s a compliance endeavor, it’s checking a box.” I’m like, “Hold on a moment. Think of it in a slightly different way.” Affirmative Action planning is an opportunity to audit and evaluate your hiring and retention practices.

And it’s a big one. There’s so much record keeping built around that, especially speaking to the folks on the talent acquisition side as you were doing the record keeping of bringing people aboard in the organization and dispositioning them and creating requisitions and managing every evergreen processes, things of that nature, all of that information, the more transparent it is, the better you have the ability to see the strengths and weaknesses in your processes and the less transparent and automated that it is or rigorously managed by those involved in hiring, the harder it is to defend your processes or even know if they’re functioning well. So as a result of that, on the back end, we’re doing those advanced analyses looking for things that could create an environment where a pay allegation or a hiring allegation of discrimination could be made. And we’re always working so hard to try to get the data in order. So having said that, I would turn to Desiree and say, “Geez, hey Desiree, what about all those things that you’re working with directive with those contractors to try to manage it on the back end of that?”

Candee Chambers:

Before you get started, I just wanted to comment because Chris, you made a very important point, and one thing that I’ve started doing is calling Affirmative Action plans, a strategic plan. Because we all developed strategic plans for the coming year, and it doesn’t really matter what the dates of your plan are, but you have to make adjustments throughout the year to your processes if your strategies aren’t being met. And that’s very much like an Affirmative Action plan. You agree, Desiree?

Desiree Throckmorton:

Absolutely. I would consider it a diagnostic tool. And so if you’re getting a diagnosis and doing nothing about it, well that’s a problem. So I would say for sure it is going to give an organization a lot of information on next steps. Of the five items that you talked about, there’s more to be done. And to what Chris was saying earlier is that it’s all driven by the data collected and maintained by federal contractors, which folks that have to manage the Affirmative Action plan are just subject to the record-keeping of hiring managers of recruiters of various people in HR. So it’s hard to get to the point where you have solid data to then work towards advancing in the topics of discussion today.

Candee Chambers:

Exactly. So I’ll tell you what, let’s discuss the first item. What do you recommend with the investigation of adverse impact?

Desiree Throckmorton:

I’ll start that one. The adverse impact analysis is so important because it is showing where you have the potential disparities that impact given race or gender through your firing process, your promotion process or termination process. But as I mentioned, that’s all data driven. So once the data tracking has been solidified and cleaned and showing you truly what’s happening in terms of who’s applying, who’s being hired, who’s promoting, once the data is… The integrity is there, then you can really dig into the analysis itself to determine whether there are disparities to then investigate further to understand maybe, “Why does that impact flag for a particular race or gender?” But it is so reliant upon having clean data to allow you to make any conclusions in terms of where to investigate.

Candee Chambers:

Exactly. And the clean data is the hardest part. Chris, did you have anything you wanted to add?

Desiree Throckmorton:

Absolutely.

Candee Chambers:

I know you know that Desiree.

Chris Lindholm:

Well, and just trying to keep it stupid brief so we can keep on moving in that when I talk to contractors, I try to give them this big picture saying, “In the initial Affirmative Action plan, you are probably looking at by job group, just overall hires versus applicants. You’re just comparing those pools.” But people need to realize that that’s the beginning, that’s not the end. Your ability to go into the different stages of the selection process and look for adverse impact in phone screening, in interviewing, and in hiring tests is critical. And I talk to so many organizations and I start to go into depth of that topic. And honestly, I get a deer in the headline type of look. So it just tells me that I think we still have a long way to go.

Candee Chambers:

Oh, you’re exactly right. And you do your adverse impact on the neutral and specific situations like testing, which you mentioned or whatever. But then you get into a more detailed disparity analysis or class-type discrimination, which creates another opportunity for looking at your data in a deeper dive situation. So it’s not one and done, it’s very intensive. Agreed?

Chris Lindholm:

Mm-hmm.

Candee Chambers:

Yeah.

Chris Lindholm:

Always.

Candee Chambers:

Okay. Let’s talk about item two, assessing differences uncovered during the ever-present pay equity audits or pay equity analyses. What are your recommendations?

Chris Lindholm:

Desiree, you going to start?

Desiree Throckmorton:

No, go ahead. So, this is such an emerging topic and issue and focus for organizations. I think it’s been very important topic for many, many years and will continue to be, but essentially it’s an art form really to determine, first of all, how do you compare your employees to conduct an analysis to determine whether you have equity? It’s a big question. It’s not easy to answer and it takes a lot of time and resources. But I would say for me in this area, I think that what’s important in this item of assessing differences in your faculty analysis is making sure that anyone in compliance has a solid relationship and partnership with their compensation team to be able to understand how to compare the analysis and what to do about areas where there are paid disparities. And we all know that you’re going to have paid disparities but it’s okay to have people paid differently.

It’s a matter of, do you track the information necessary to explain those differences. And the one thing I always suggest to companies is where possible partner with TA and Comp together to be capturing the factors that determine someone’s starting pay. You’re obviously evaluating someone at the stage of applying to an organization and you find why is that person being hired and you’re tracking them compared to others, and you have reasons for their selection and their movement into your organization. So use that information for the pay equity study to be able to show, “Well, this person was hired because they had this certification or this experience.” Something that gives you just a little bit more depth to the people that you’re hiring so that you can compare them with respect to the things that truly influence differences of pay.

Candee Chambers:

I agree wholeheartedly. Chris, anything you want to add on that?

Chris Lindholm:

Well, just, again, I keep going back to what I talk to people about on a regular basis. And I think this is a big one because people ask me… Because we’re often on the phone with councils and VPs of larger organizations, they want to understand what is my risk. And I often tell them, there are a lot of components of Affirmative Action that the risk is mostly around checking a box or identifying that you’re doing something you’re supposed to be doing. However, there are a couple of areas of true financial risk in Affirmative Action pay equity and adverse impact. So I tell them, “You really need a strategy.” And with enforcement coming through not only OFCCP and its evolving efforts, but now coming down through state enforcement and we know that EEOC is still in the background planning for future strategy in this area, you’ve got to have a plan. We’ve got to talk about how you’re going to proactively manage these things internally because managing them on reactively on the back end of an audit is much more painful.

Desiree Throckmorton:

Even beyond the audit component. You mentioned the state-level approach and states like California and Colorado that are requiring employers to post in the job posting what the pay range is. That’s a game changer for employers to have to contend with their current employees and A, to figure out the range. But then B, how do you answer the question when employees say, “Well, why is this pay range higher than what I’m making in this job?”

Candee Chambers:

And we just had a story about a young lady in New York applying for her own job because they were paying like $30,000 more than she was making. So I mean it is rampant. And in California, you have various pay data reporting reports. Now there’s one for labor contractors, I think Illinois has a report. There’s a few other states. And if you don’t get it under control yourself, somebody will figure it out eventually. I used to literally break down all of my plans. I had a hundred plans and I literally broke it down about eight or 10 a month. And I literally had an Excel spreadsheet and I knew I had to do an analysis on each of those establishments and finish them each month. And then if I found any of the locations that were later in the year that were on a CSAL, I automatically bumped them to the top.

And I found a few issues here and there and got them fixed before the audit took place. And there were things that should have been fixed anyway. So it’s one of those things, even if you’re not a government contractor, you probably have disparities in your pay and it’s wise and responsible to double check just because if you don’t have that partnership, like you had suggested, Desiree, between compensation and talent acquisition, there are situations where people do get paid inappropriately. And if you don’t check it out on a regular basis, you won’t have the opportunity to get it fixed and it does need to be fixed.

Desiree Throckmorton:

Yeah, I agree.

Candee Chambers:

Yeah, it’s a good practice to just have a list of the sites you have to do this for and have somebody with that responsibility. So one of my favorite areas, we’ll move on from pay equity because that’s always a challenge. But just one more thing, I like doing cohort analyses, but I would always say to put your OFCCP lens on, because if it looks weird to you, it’s going to look weird to the OFCCP. So that’s just my thought process on that. But my favorite item is outreach, and it’s still good faith efforts for minorities and females, but Debra Carr, the prior director of enforcement when the updated VEVRAA and Section 503 regs came out in 2000 March of 2014, said, you should just get the term good faith efforts out of your vocabulary. So I believe it’s important to exercise outreach strategies for females, minorities, veterans, and people with disabilities. What do you think?

Chris Lindholm:

Okay, where are we starting?

Desiree Throckmorton:

Yeah.

Chris Lindholm:

Yes, Des your up.

Desiree Throckmorton:

Okay. Yeah, I think it’s fundamental to the mission, essentially. That’s just where this all resides in. What are you doing to attract qualified women, minorities, individuals with disabilities? And if the answer is nothing, then clearly you’re falling short of the expectations. And I know that organizations are really challenged by this particular element and-

Candee Chambers:

And I don’t understand that.

Desiree Throckmorton:

… DE is such a… Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I think they also struggle very much with the next topic, and I know I’m jumping ahead, but evaluating their outreach. And I think that talent acquisition is your partner in this because they’re often the ones that are doing the efforts, making those efforts to find those partnerships that are truly going to find candidates that you can work with. And one of the things I always tell clients is about your product that you have, and he gets part of Recruit Rooster where you can translate some spectrum’s language into civilian language to help you understand, what are the terms equate to when you compare a certain job qualifications and skills between vets, nomenclature and the civilian industry?

And I think that’s such an important thing because if you cannot speak the same language, how are you going to know when someone’s truly a qualified candidate? I think that’s a bit of a barrier that a lot of companies don’t realize that they actually have to put effort into having recruiters that specialize in that or having tools to allow them to make those translations. But I do think this is an area a lot of people struggle with.

Candee Chambers:

I do too. And it’s been really interesting to watch just more and more and more of our Members use our Partner Relationship Manager because all of those resources are there. We give them the resources. And that’s… When I was in a compliance role at my two previous companies, that was the thing that was so difficult. Was trying to find people to network with and to try and help you meet your goals. So I appreciate the shout-out, Desiree, but you’re exactly right. That’s what people need. And I honestly believe that anybody in an organization can do outreach. There are plenty of people that have just a passion for working with certain groups. I had a guy in Birmingham that was a veteran himself, and he liked working with Homeless Vets and we counted that as outreach.

Desiree Throckmorton:

Absolutely.

Candee Chambers:

Yeah. So Chris, anything you’d like to add?

Chris Lindholm:

Well, just two minor points. Because, again, I talk to a lot of people on the front end of this, and I always tell them, and they always agree, and I don’t know if they follow our advice, but I say, honestly, no matter where you are in the country around you are associations in groups that you can connect with and make friends with people who are advocates-

Candee Chambers:

Exactly.

Chris Lindholm:

… for these different underprivileged groups or underutilized groups. And it’s just not that hard to make a real personal connection there to do more than just saying, “Oh, I got my job posted, I’m good.” Try a little harder. And I’ll conclude my point by saying, people need to pay attention to and remember to the fact that the regulations and the itemized listing requirements in an audit have changed to very specifically include saying, “We want to see your evaluation of your outreach and how you are adapting to those areas where you’re not getting results.” And I think people still have not adapted to that requirement and expectation.

Candee Chambers:

Well, you’re exactly right. And to that point, the next topic I was going to bring up is something that we talk to Members about a lot and our Member engagement reps do, and our Partner Relationship Manager also has this built-in where the Member can go in and determine whether their outreach has been effective or not. But that’s the outreach effectiveness assessment. What is your take on that and how you determine, I’ll just start off from day one, had have said that you should review your outreach quarterly, even though the requirement is only annually. What do you guys think about that?

Desiree Throckmorton:

I’ll go first. I agree with that Candee, because it’s such a manual process, there’s not really an easy way to automate it. I know that when I was working for a large federal contractor, it was a challenge to connect. What were those efforts to… What were the actual outcomes? For example, we would try to use the source that someone would indicate in when they applied for the job and then try to track it that way. But that’s dependent on the applicants dropping down the source that you want them to select. And that’s sometimes an optional field and-

Candee Chambers:

Internet, internet.

Desiree Throckmorton:

… So to be able to connect… Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So they come through the Google or whatever. So I think that just connecting it to those hires is so hard because it’s disconnected. And so I think you’re exactly right. Doing it regularly would just break it down into more achievable sizes.

Candee Chambers:

And it gives you time to make modifications if you’re not getting any results.

Desiree Throckmorton:

Yep, exactly.

Candee Chambers:

Chris?

Desiree Throckmorton:

I agree with that.

Chris Lindholm:

Well, I’ll just conclude very much agreeing with your statement and bottom line that source tracking is a big deal, but if you try to do something like that on an annual basis, the memory or the people involved is just not going to be very clean. So on at least a quarterly basis, and then bare bones, semi-annual, sit down with the people who are actually bringing people board and they’re hiring them and talk to them about, “Hey, where are we getting good candidates? What are some of our efforts that are actually working?” Because if you’re just throwing things out there and you don’t know if you’re getting a result associated with it, then you’re not doing yourselves any favor in the ROI department.

Candee Chambers:

Exactly.

Desiree Throckmorton:

Yeah. I have a client right now who’s under audit, and this is the sticking point where the OFCCP does not feel satisfied with the outreach effort as well as the turnaround of what the effectiveness is. So it’s definitely a sticking point that OFCCP is looking at.

Candee Chambers:

Oh, they’ve gotten more and more aggressive with outreach. And every time I’ve talked to people, I had a real fight at my last employer, and it was so cool. One day when they invited me on, the HR business partners invited me onto a conference call with their vice president, and they were just kind of sharing their experiences doing outreach. And I was like, “Why am I on this call?” Because I wasn’t saying anything. And then finally they said, “We really wanted Candee on here because we wanted, first of all, to apologize to her for telling us that we needed to do this. And second, we wanted to thank her because this has been so rewarding like she said it would be, and really a lot of fun.” And I was like, “Wow, I couldn’t have asked for anything more.” I think people, like you said at the very beginning, Desiree, people have this attitude that. “I don’t want to do outreach. I don’t have time for that.”

And really when you do it… What I found is we all have days when you think, “Oh, if I have to go into the office, or I don’t want to have to deal with that problem or whatever.” And then you go out and you do your outreach and you go and visit a resource or you have a meeting with them, or you just talk to them over the phone and you tell them some things that your company does, and then they say, “Wow, you don’t know how lucky you have it or how easy it would be to get people to come to work, maybe people with disabilities or something, because you’ve really got a great company.” And it’s so rewarding. And it makes you feel really good about the company you work for.

So anyway, last but not least, ensuring training of all stakeholders, which I will argue is probably as important as items one through four that we discussed. But I think this is one that really falls short in a lot of organizations. I get requests for training probably weekly. Do you do some training for your clients as well?

Desiree Throckmorton:

Yes, we definitely have different approaches to training for clients. It’s not a one-size-fits-all, but I think you’re exactly right. This is a very important part of it because the stakeholders, whether it’s the hiring managers, the recruiters, someone in compensation, it’s a pretty deep bench of people who need to understand the requirements of, “How do we make and achieve equal employment opportunity within our organization?” So I think that it’s different training for different audiences and we train folks in recruitment and talent acquisition, but it’s going to be a different training than we’re going to have if we’re reviewing it with hiring managers because they need to know different things. But they all have a huge impact, obviously in the end result of the Affirmative Action plan itself.

Candee Chambers:

It is interesting. I actually would do training for the talent acquisition and HR business partners, and then I would give them just a short and sweet training to do for their facility leaders. And do you know that in one of my audits, I had the OFCCP request my sign-in? And my boss, to her credit, she said, “You need to make sure you have a sign-in sheet.” And I was like, “Oh, I don’t need a sign-in sheet.” Huh? Let me just tell you, I had the OFCCP request, and boy was I thankful I had a sign-in sheet for that particular audit. So Chris, any other tips and tricks?

Chris Lindholm:

Well, yeah. Again, just sort of keeping short in my mind, the training element of Affirmative Action has always been interesting ’cause it’s always been very loosely defined. Even prior to the updated regs in 2014, it would talk about training periodically or making leadership aware of things. And then after 2014, the veteran and disability regs were a little bit more specific about annual training. But because it’s not something that has a deadline like an Affirmative Action plan or an EO one report, and it’s kind of nebulous about what exactly information needs to be shared, I think it’s a little bit of a free for all.

And I think this is that opportunity when they leverage professionals like DirectEmployers and OutSolve, that they can really improve their position. But I’m a big fan of taking these elements for say, leadership, or for hiring processes and making it very digestible, meaningful content and keeping it simple. So they might actually employ it or understand how to utilize it in their work life because I think it’s too easy to make it, “Okay, we did our training for the day, we walk away and you ask me about the next day and I won’t even remember what happened.”

Desiree Throckmorton:

Yeah.

Candee Chambers:

And that’s really unfortunate. Like I said, I look at this as a strategic plan and the information you gather as you go through the year, whether it’s training or just experiences that should build on the success moving forward. And I like to see the companies that really take Affirmative Action seriously, just like a strategic plan, you have to do that every year because you have to be able to plot your progress for the coming year. And that’s really what an Affirmative Action plan does.

So I’ll tell you what, it’s been great talking with you today. I love sharing topics like this with you guys anyway, but one of the things I just wanted to ask, is there anything else you recommend that employers consider after their Affirmative Action plans are complete?

Desiree Throckmorton:

I have something, definitely, and I’ve seen more of this lately, is I’ve seen a partnership between compliance and diversity and inclusion. And so I’ve really enjoyed seeing clients partnering more within that space. And I think it’s a great place to move forward together with that same information rather than working separately with different goals and strategies. It’s such a unique relationship that I think definitely should be in unison. So I’ve seen more of that and I’ve really liked it. So continue with that.

Candee Chambers:

That is probably the best point that we’ve made during this entire podcast. One thing that… I even recall it, because I’ve been in the DE&I group and compliance, Affirmative Action planning, and then my other employer, they were separate. And the DE&I team always seems to get more recognition, more attention in a company, because that’s not compliance. That’s something that is just good for the company to do. And Affirmative Action is kind of seen as, “Oh crap, it’s just something we have to do.” But if you’re doing your Affirmative Action planning correctly, your DE&I statistics are really appropriate based on the labor market area in which you do business. But I wholeheartedly agree if you can work together and support one another, you’re 10 steps ahead. So thank you, Desiree, for bringing that up. That’s a huge shout-out. I wholeheartedly agree with you on that. So Chris.

Chris Lindholm:

All right. And thanks again for having us on, and I’ll just conclude by saying I think it may be one of the hardest things to do, but the better an organization can build a model to maintain and manage these processes and share information in a meaningful way continuously is what’s going to bring you real results. And my fear is always when I talk to companies is that when they just kind of do one-and-done for any of these activities and they don’t build a continuous model that they can manage and relate and share even if they leave the company, things just get forgotten. And so continuity and leveraging that technology is really valuable if they can make the effort.

Candee Chambers:

Oh, we see that a lot too. Yeah, very good point, Chris, thank you for that. All right, so we end every podcast with a rapid fire question. So I’m going to go through a series of short fun questions before ending the today’s conversation. So all you have to do is say the first thing that comes to mind, and I’m just going to say your name and you don’t know who I’m going to ask first. So are you ready?

Chris Lindholm:

Yeah.

Candee Chambers:

Desiree, you ready?

Desiree Throckmorton:

Yep.

Candee Chambers:

Okay. Early bird or night owl? Desiree, what are you?

Desiree Throckmorton:

I’m an early bird.

Candee Chambers:

Chris.

Chris Lindholm:

Night owl.

Candee Chambers:

Oh, okay. All right. Phone call or text person? Chris?

Chris Lindholm:

Text all the way.

Candee Chambers:

Okay. Desiree.

Desiree Throckmorton:

Phone call.

Candee Chambers:

Good. All right. List-

Desiree Throckmorton:

We’re opposites.

Candee Chambers:

… I know, I know. So list five things that make you happy. Desiree.

Desiree Throckmorton:

I would say my family, my dog, kindness, exploring new places, and tennis.

Candee Chambers:

Tennis. Oh, that’s interesting. I could agree family and dog and all of that. I probably would’ve added chocolate and wine, but that’s okay.

Desiree Throckmorton:

Oh yeah.

Candee Chambers:

Chris, what about you?

Chris Lindholm:

Oh, yeah, dinner out with my wife, May in Sacramento on a beautiful Sunday afternoon and traveling, and I don’t remember how many that is, but-

Candee Chambers:

Four.

Chris Lindholm:

That’s good. Go ahead and throw in my dog and family and we’re good.

Candee Chambers:

It’s funny how dogs and family and kids are always up there, which they should be, but nobody ever forgets their dogs. Right. Okay. So OutSolve has great tech, we know that. But what is your favorite technology or device that you use in your free time?

Desiree Throckmorton:

I would say my KitchenAid mixer for baking cookies.

Candee Chambers:

Oh gosh. Okay. I am getting hungry. So after lunchtime here now on the East Coast. So Chris, what about you?

Chris Lindholm:

Oh, I’m so ashamed to admit because I’m an ADD person with my iPad playing fantasy sports and texting everybody under the sun.

Candee Chambers:

Well, that’s not bad. I thought you were going to say a Blackberry or something like that.

Chris Lindholm:

No, no.

Candee Chambers:

Although just for the record, Blackberry is one of our Members, and I still love a Blackberry. So just for the record, I just want to throw that out there.

Desiree Throckmorton:

Same here.

Candee Chambers:

I love Blackberry. So, okay, last but not least, if you could completely shift gears in your career, what would your dream job be, Chris?

Chris Lindholm:

Oh, oh heck. I’d be pitching in the Major Leagues baseball team and heading into the Hall of Fame, but that’s all I got.

Candee Chambers:

That’s a pretty good dream. Desiree, what about you?

Desiree Throckmorton:

Definitely a tennis pro.

Candee Chambers:

I didn’t even know you played tennis, so, all right.

Desiree Throckmorton:

Yeah, I love it.

Candee Chambers:

Okay. Well, Jamie Costello, our head of marketing used to play tennis as well.

Desiree Throckmorton:

Oh, I didn’t know that.

Candee Chambers:

Yeah, so it’s fun things you find out without even trying, so that’s awesome. All right, well, thank you Chris and Desiree for joining us as our guests today. You’ve hit so many points home today, and I genuinely value our partnership with OutSolve, and respect your approach to Affirmative Action and Compliance. So if our listeners want to get in touch with you or have additional questions, what’s the best way to reach you, Chris?

Chris Lindholm:

Oh, just email. clindholm@outsoutsolve.com.

Candee Chambers:

And that’s L-I-N-D-H-O-L-M, Lindholm.

Chris Lindholm:

Exactly right.

Candee Chambers:

Yep. Yep. Okay. And Desiree, what about you?

Desiree Throckmorton:

Same for me. Email’s best. Dthrockmorton, which is T-H-R-O-C-K-M-O-R-T-O-N, @outsolve.com.

Candee Chambers:

Sorry. Thank you, Desiree. And sorry to our listeners that we don’t have like Sue Smith, and John Brown.

Desiree Throckmorton:

I know, exactly.

Candee Chambers:

Anyway, all right, thanks folks. Again, this is a lot of fun talking with you today, and I’m sure our listeners will enjoy our conversation as well. So thanks again.

Chris Lindholm:

Thanks, Candee.

Candee Chambers:

Have a great week.

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