DE Talk | Empowering Women Veterans: Navigating the Transition from Service to Civilian Success

Season 6 • Episode 3

Women veterans often face unique and overlooked challenges when transitioning from military service to civilian employment, as many veteran hiring programs are built with men in mind. In this episode, DirectEmployers Community & State Outreach Administrator Kim Lott sits down with Women Veterans Interactive Foundation Founder & CEO Ginger Miller to explore the roadblocks women veterans encounter, the resources they need, and how employers can build supportive recruitment and retention strategies tailored to them. Ginger shares her insights on connecting with veteran organizations and the importance of building an inclusive workplace that truly supports women veterans: “If you can’t reach women veterans, you can’t support women veterans.

About DE Talk

For DirectEmployers, it’s all about valuable connections and meaningful conversations. This monthly podcast features honest and open dialogue between powerhouse industry experts on a variety of HR topics ranging from OFCCP compliance advice to emerging recruitment marketing trends, diversity and inclusion initiatives, and insightful solutions that help infuse new life into your HR strategies.

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Episode Guest

Episode Transcript

DirectEmployers (00:00):

Get ready. The DE Talk podcast starts now insightful conversations and dialogue, helping you put the human factor back in hr.

Kim Lott (00:08):

According to the US Department of Veteran Affairs, women veterans represent about 10% of the veteran population with over 2 million women veterans in the us. However, when you look at employment rates of women veterans, it tends to be higher than that of male veterans and non-veteran women, particularly in the first few years post-military. To help us dig deeper into this topic and share ideas of how we can reshape this narrative from women veterans, I feel incredibly privileged to welcome Ms. Ginger Miller, founder and CEO of Women Veterans Interactive Foundation. Ginger is a force to be reckoned with, and her advocacy and thought leadership has been featured in publications and media such as LA Times, Time Magazine, Washington Post, Fox Five, DAV Magazine, AMVET Magazine, Black Enterprise, Defense News, and Essence magazine. She was also appointed by President Biden to serve on the United Service Organization’s Board of Governors.

(01:06):

Welcome to the DE Talk podcast. First and foremost, Ms. Ginger, you know my shipmate. Let’s just put that out there. Thank you for your service. I’m so excited to have you today. You have such a powerful story of service and transition with so much to unpack about what’s occurred along your journey. I like to start by having you share a little bit about yourself before we get into all that good stuff. So I kind of spoiled the lead there and called you shipmates. So everyone knows that you are a veteran of the world’s finest Navy, but let’s just give that a little bit of a space so we could simmer in that beautiful commonality that we have together. But let’s talk, you served in the Navy. Let’s talk about after that service, the challenges you experienced with finding employment. I want to dig right into that.

Ginger Miller (01:57):

Okay. Kim, thank you so much for having me. I’m super excited to be here and thank you so much for your service. You have yourself, but I did serve in the United States Navy – Go Navy!

Kim Lott (02:08):

Go Navy!

Ginger Miller (02:09):

And a lot of women veterans. It’s almost like for some of us it’s a scramble. And when we take off funeral reform, and for my story in particular, I was married, still married, going on 35 years next month, and I got a medical discharge. My husband was already out of the military. He was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, and I was pregnant at the time. And so I got a medical discharge, went back to New York to stay with my family, which I thought was a safe place. For a time it was. And then I had my son. I was very unskilled, didn’t really know we are to look for help. You go through the transition course and we’re talking early nineties, and what they tell you to do is what I listened to. I made sure I did sign up for VA benefits, so I did that. But where do you go when you’re very young? You are unskilled. You drove boats in the military for maybe a year and a half. Go back to a town that’s not military friendly. They don’t have boats for you to drive. And then your family tell you, okay, because of your husband’s post-traumatic stress disorder, you have to basically take your crazy husband to find some place to go. Now, I was going to school at the time because I wanted to get my degree, and that was the plan. Okay, you come back here, get your degree, get on your feet. But

(03:26):

Due to the post-traumatic stress order, it just didn’t work out that way. So I became homeless. So I worked three jobs and went to school full time to pull me and my family out of that homelessness. So I didn’t have the opportunity to do a resume interview skills. There weren’t a lot of programs out there in the early nineties for veterans. It just wasn’t. So I had to cut it out.

Kim Lott (03:50):

Absolutely. And you bring up the point about being unskilled and for any employer that would be listening to this, the military is wonderful. It’s a wonderful environment. I mean all of the civilian jobs that you find a counterpart in the military branches, but there are some jobs that are very military specific, right? So what you’re talking about the same kind of issue I had. Mine was a military specific job. Matter of fact, I looked, I Googled you and went dived in deep before we had this and found some things out about you that even I was shocked about. You were in the first female group to integrate the Navy boat crew at Camp Lejeune. Is that correct?

Ginger Miller (04:29):

You know what? That is correct. And that was an experience all of in itself. I didn’t know how great that was, but it was a great experience. And there was a couple of women on that crew. It was two of us to be exact. And how that came about is because we went from Annapolis, Maryland, we married Marines and got stationed from Annapolis, Maryland to Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. And we were in the barracks for a while there at Camp Lejeune, and they didn’t know what to do with us. What do you do with two Navy women who were not hospital corpsmen because we could have went to the hospital, but we didn’t fit the billet. So they said, oh, you know what, there’s a boat crew somewhere around here, so send ’em over to the boat group. So that’s how that happened. As

Kim Lott (05:13):

Wonderful of an experience as that was something that’s very military specific like that. It doesn’t really have a transferability into the civilian force. So when you transfer out, you, you’re stuck in this position where you need to be able to find civilian work. So you have to be able to have something that can easily transition. I know that that drives part of your mission and the reason why you formed Women Veterans Interactive Foundation. Could you share with us more about the mission of your foundation and some of the employment programs you offer to fellow women service members

Ginger Miller (05:49):

Sure

Kim Lott (05:49):

Transitioning women?

Ginger Miller (05:51):

Sure. At the heart, at the root of the Women Veterans Active Foundation is outreach and engagement because we truly believe that no matter how many programs you have, no matter how great your programs are, if you can’t reach women veterans, then you can’t support women veterans. And I really need that to sink in. But our mission is to connect, engage and empower women veterans with the tools and resources needed for post-military success through financial resources, workforce development and community. And all of those go hand in hand. And we have a couple of different programs that focus on workforce readiness and employment, and I’ll talk to you a little bit about two of those.

(06:35):

The one that we created first is the Women Veterans Transition Space where we have virtual webinars and we host those on a quarterly basis and we highlight employers and the opportunities that employers have. We give advice on resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and mock interviews. And when we first started the program, we had partnered with Starbucks and this was pre pandemic, and we would host these in different Starbucks stores around the country. And it was great because it gave the women veterans opportunities to meet with these employers one-on-one and have these gatherings with women veterans in their local communities. And it would help them to break down these barriers in these silos that they felt and make them feel comfortable. Like there was a woman veteran, for instance, who had served for 25 years and she had applied for so many jobs, but she could never get a job, although she, let’s say applied for 50 jobs and she got three interviews, she never got the call back.

(07:30):

And we realized on the spot she never got called back because in her interview sessions, she could never look the employer in the eyes. And so then through these mock interview sessions that we did in the Starbucks store, we just trained her like, okay, you got to look me straight that in the face, right? Look me eye to eye. Don’t be afraid to do that. So whatever her issues were, she overcame those issues. And guess what? She got a great job.

Kim Lott (07:55):

Yeah, that’s so important. I mean, I’ve been out so long. I took TAP so long ago. It’s hard for me to remember what was taught there, but I don’t recall them going over that type of stuff back then. So there is a real need for that because you got to find out what the barrier is and everyone’s going to have their own unique barrier.

Ginger Miller (08:13):

You do. And when you think about the transition period, getting out of the military, you always think transition, transition, transition. But let’s take a step back. When you’re in the military and you go from pay grade to pay grade to pay grade, you don’t have to interview, you take a test, you do a different kind of things to progress in your field to the next level. You are not doing a resume, you’re not doing an interview, not like that.

(08:40):

You know what in that particular field. So sometimes as women veterans, it could be a number of different things, but for this particular woman veteran, it was the eye to eye contact. It was the shyness, it was the nervousness that that was her barrier. And then in addition to the women veterans transition space, we have beyond the transition, that is a co-op program. It’s a four week virtual program and a two day in-person program where we have a career fair mentor matching our annual conference in 2025 is actually going to host these ladies. And we did with the first pilot program that we did, but we also want to connect a career fair to that in 2025, we connect them to their VA ecosystem. And we also work on retention and both beyond the transition program and the women veteran transition space, because you could set your target and set your goal to hire X amount of women veterans, which a lot of folks are not doing.

(09:37):

I know we are going to dive into that, but what about the retention? How do we retain these women to make sure that they stay successful at this workplace?

Kim Lott (09:45):

Exactly. So I mean that transition space beyond the transition, tell us a little bit more about how employers can better connect with those resources. You talked a little bit about your plans for future hiring fair, but are there other ways that employers can come along, organizations like yours and other organizations that are similar in this space trying to help women?

Ginger Miller (10:09):

Well, a couple of things that we are going to do. We are reviving these programs for 2025, and one of the things that we’re going to do, we’re going to have a portal on the website in 2025 where employees can connect with us. And one of the things that we’re going to host is probably going to, this podcast is going to happen before this podcast air is we have a women veterans corporate roundtable at our annual conference, and we hope to have at least 25 employers at the Women Veterans Corporate Roundtable this year that is being hosted by USAA so that we can open up this conversation officially this year. We did it a couple of years ago. It was hosted by Amazon, it was pre pandemic, but we are bringing it back again this year because time and time again, the topic keeps coming back. So we are going to open it up again this year at the annual conference and then come back in 2025 to see what kind of progress that we’ve made during the year. But employees can always reach out to us at Women Veterans Interactive Foundation to join the conversation even after the roundtable has occurred.

Kim Lott (11:10):

Awesome. Now we also know Ms. Ginger women veterans often face higher unemployment rates and may encounter difficulty transitioning, like we said, their military skills into civilian jobs, either on resume or in-person during an interview. What are some of the unique challenges from your perspective that you’ve identified that women veterans encounter when they transition into the civilian workforce? And do those differ significantly from your perspective, from male veterans?

Ginger Miller (11:40):

I like to call that the great transition. And when I do briefings or whatever, I have this one slide where there’s a woman veteran and you can envision her, all these things are up in the air and some women veterans are single parent, it’s childcare, lack of community, dedicated program support. I got to find the next school for my kids. I got to find a home. There’s so much going on that we deal with as women veterans. It is almost like a octopus effect. But if we don’t have those dedicated programs just for us, then it becomes that great transition and how do we really focus on what it is that we really want to do versus what we got to do to survive? At what point do we garner that support for women veterans so that we could get out of survival mode? You in the military, and for those that are going off to war, you’re in survival mode. When does that ever cut off?

(12:36):

So you’re doing the best you can do in the military, then you’re doing what you have to do when you get out of the military. But a lot of women, veterans are single parents because of divorce, unfortunately. Childcare rates are high. So if you don’t get an employer that has great childcare, that’s a challenge. The lack of community support to talk to another woman veteran about the challenges you may be facing. Unfortunately, we know the challenges that women veterans face in the military, some with M-S-P-T-S-D, other issues that the VA can assist them with. And that is a part of the lack of community that I’m talking about, getting them connected to other resources. And then it goes back to dedicated program support, and we’ll talk about that later on. So a lot of that when you are scrambling and then it goes back to, wait a minute, now I got to figure out how to hit the brakes and figure out this resume thing, the interview thing. And that’s why preparation is key. So with the programs that we have at WVI, especially with beyond the transition, we are trying to get women veterans into that program at least two years

(13:43):

Before they transition out of the military. So now you have all of these skills and these resources that you are equipped with in your toolkit. So when you walk out of the door and you take off that uniform, you can scramble with everything else, but you are ready for that next career, that next job booth, whatever it is that you want to do, you are ready to do it.

Kim Lott (14:04):

And that loss of community, I mean, I think that’s huge, especially for women. And this is just anecdotally, I don’t see that men have that to the same degree that women have. I mean, I can roll down the street and I’m going to be able to identify a male veteran. Usually they’re going to be wearing a hat. They’re going to be wearing something that will invite you to walk up to them and say, Hey, what branch did you serve in? And have some commonality, but you very rarely know of another woman veteran if you’re just walking down the street. And when you get out the military, if you don’t maintain those connections, you lose that community. You lose that identity. And that is important because we know networking is very important in order for our future success. So being in community with other women veterans, having that connection, that’s key. That’s key for future work.

Ginger Miller (14:53):

Absolutely. And that’s what I mean by dedicated program support dedicated specifically for earmarked for women veterans because that community loss of community is detrimental for some people. Not for everybody, but for some people.

(15:07):

And then the sad part is as women veterans, we will probably never complain because we do the best that we can and we make it happen regardless. But then we suffer in silence at so many different levels.

Kim Lott (15:18):

Absolutely. Now, how do factors such as discrimination or a lack of mentorship contribute to those employment barriers for women veterans? That’s a whole nother piece.

Ginger Miller (15:29):

You know what? It is a whole nother piece. And I’m glad you asked that question because, and I hate to use the word discrimination, and I don’t even know if that’s really the word, but I almost feel like it’s a lack of awareness and education. And it is time for a hard stop versus a pause for people to really look at what the needs are for women veterans, right? Because there has never really been a hiring movement for women veterans. Like we dip a major

Kim Lott (15:57):

Initiative

Ginger Miller (15:59):

Initiative for women veterans. We dibble and we dabble. We say, okay, this is enough. Or maybe it’s not enough. We do it to say that we’ve done it, but do we really mean it? If that makes sense.

Kim Lott (16:12):

No, I get you. Around certain holiday, there’s a push around women veterans

Ginger Miller (16:17):

Recognition, but women veterans need to be gainfully employed because when you look at the homelessness rates, it’s women veterans. When you look at all of the bad rates, and I don’t really, I like to lead with solutions and not the issues, but women, veterans need to be gainfully employed. And women veterans, I tell folks all the time, if we are good for business, then we are good to do business with.

(16:40):

We are driving households, we are buying products. We are doing so many different things. So I think, again, discrimination is a very hard word. And I think again, it’s the lack of awareness of the need of women veterans to be supported through employment initiatives, direct employment initiatives for women veterans, because I’ve seen a couple over the years. They pop up, they go away. But I think the time is now. I know the time is now, and that’s why I’m really honored to be on this podcast and to do, we are

Kim Lott (17:13):

Honored to have you.

Ginger Miller (17:14):

Thank you so much. And to do all of the amazing things that we have done with DirectEmployers so far. I mean, I feel like this is truly the beginning.

Kim Lott (17:20):

And to your point about homelessness, I mean, then you have women veteran suicide rates that are skyrocketing. I mean, it’s all interconnected. If you can’t feed your family, it leads to depression, leads to apathetic mindset, and that just kind of spirals. So a lot of it goes back to just having a job, being able to support your family. Ms. Ginger, can you share a success story of maybe a woman veteran that you’ve supported through WVI who overcame some of the challenges that we spoke about and found a rewarding career? What were the key factors that helped her succeed?

Ginger Miller (17:56):

We have a couple of stories here at WVI. I think I’m going to touch on maybe one or two, but one in particular. Because when you talk about community, well, there may be two when you talk about community and when you talk about transition and the things that women veterans have gone through, we’re not traditional by any stretch of the imagination because we’re not because we are wise mothers, caregivers, women, and we are veterans. And I know later we’re going to talk about diversity and inclusion, and this is a hot topic for me, but I remember having a session and the session was not unemployment. The session was on health and wellness and something else. But when you talk about the women veterans community, and when you talk about the great transition, I remember having a session with the woman veteran, with women veterans, and the VA was there.

(18:47):

And at the end of the session I said, oh, to one woman veteran. I said, oh, well, how did you enjoy the session? And I said, oh, turn your camera on. And she turned her camera on and she was crying and she said, I really enjoyed the session, but I was in a dark space, in a dark place. But to see so many amazing, powerful women veterans who have gone through something similar and who have made it out, I feel like I can go on because I served so long in the military as a mother leaving my kids. And I had that guilt. I remember being called to Capitol Hill to testify, and it was on, I can’t remember the senate committee that it was, but I know it was on economics and it had something to do with veterans and jobs and women veterans in retention. But this woman veteran, just by this virtual program, one of the ones that I just discussed, she went on to be an area manager at a top company because she had the opportunity to unpack that baggage. And she had the opportunity to see herself and others and other women who had overcame the great transition. It talked about health and wellness and unemployment, whatever it was that we were doing. But that’s the power of community.

(20:09):

And then when you talk about the transition space itself, there was another woman veteran. We had a career fair at the National Harbor years ago. She had got out of the army and she came and we had Department of Labor, we had all these great folks down there, and she really didn’t know what she wanted to do. And she came there and she got connected, and she ended up getting a federal job. And I believe she got a federal job maybe right at the GS 13 or 14 level after serving 25 years. But she got connected, but she really didn’t know what she could do or what she wanted to do. But that again, is the power of community.

Kim Lott (20:45):

Exactly. And mentors. And just being able to see people ahead of you that are doing what you want to do, being able to see that is very motivating and empowering.

Ginger Miller (20:57):

It is.

Kim Lott (20:58):

So let’s talk a little bit about that. Mentors, networks, veteran focused organizations, kind of the role that they play in helping women thrive in their career. So we kind of unpack the transition in space, but you, and I think we even talked about this yesterday, it’s not enough to just get the job. I mean, women or men doesn’t make a difference. You have to be able to have the supports to stay in that job. So let’s talk about mentors, networks, organizations, ways that women can be supported to help thrive in those careers once they get them.

Ginger Miller (21:33):

Mentors, networks, allies. Sometimes we forget about allies because allies are so important and allies can be right there at the workplace. Mentors are great as well. Networks are great as well. And all of those are a part of the community because again, when you talk about retention, you need somebody to talk to. You need somebody to bounce something off of. You need somebody that you could be real with. You need somebody that you could be a woman veteran to and that mentor, that ally, that supporter. It doesn’t necessarily have to be another woman veteran, but having that community, let’s talk ERGs in the workplace.

Kim Lott (22:13):

And you need someone that you can invite to speak frankly with you. Listen, you spoke that way in the military, but that’s not going to fly here, right? There’s a transition there. There’s a different way of speaking and being in the military that you have to speak and be in the civilian world. So you need to have people that can feel empowered to be honest with you. Hey, that’s not the right.

Ginger Miller (22:37):

And I tell folks all the time, sometimes you have to stand to be corrected. A mentor or ally or supporter doesn’t mean that you have to agree with that person all the time. You have to be honest with that person, but you have to also open yourself up as a woman veteran to be connected to that community, to that mentor. One of the things that we do beyond the transition program is we want women veterans to have a mentor in your specific field because there’s different kind of mentors. So let’s say you want to be an astronaut, you should probably have somebody who’s an astronaut as a mentor, but then you may want to have an overall mentor. So we can open you up to that through maybe one of our partners. So there’s a peer to peer type of mentor and there’s a professional development mentor, and all of that is crucial to your success in the civilian sector. So it’s not a one shoe fits all type of mentality. And it’s not just like, oh, well, I’m being a mentor for a mentor’s sake. You have to take it. The mentor as well as the mentee type of relationship is so serious. I mentor a couple of people, and sometimes as a mentor, you have to do more listening than talking at first, because if you want that person to be successful, you have to get to understand that person. But when it comes to taking a deeper dive into retention at the workplace, I did a speaking engagement and I told some folks, I said, listen, you never know what’s going on with a woman veteran in your workplace because you may have someone. And when you talk about workplace, we’re talking at all different levels, not just like, oh, upper level or middle level. You could have somebody who’s barely making ends meet in your workplace. You may have women veterans who are sleeping in their cars, so you may want to leave maybe some brochures or something in the ladies room saying, oh, if you are in need of support, this is the number to the VA. Be veteran friendly in your workplaces.

Kim Lott (24:50):

I think that’s a great practice. And listen, not all of them, you don’t even know where those women veterans are in your organization sometimes. So just having that information there is going to be important

Ginger Miller (25:01):

Having that information available is so important. And I know we’re going to talk about some other stuff going on, but having that information available, like, oh, if you are struggling with homelessness, you can reach out. You don’t have to do it all the time, but every now and again just to check the temperature in your workplace because things like that will help you with retention because now you have an employee that is being connected to her ecosystem because she needs to be connected to the VA, which is a part of her ecosystem. And as employers, we need to understand that if we going to be veteran friendly.

Kim Lott (25:37):

Exactly. Now we know that women veterans bring a very unique skillset, the leadership part, the adaptability, problem solving, but also struggle to translate those skills into civilian context sometimes. What advice would you give to a woman veteran who is struggling to translate their military experience into a civilian resume, for instance? How can they better highlight those strengths?

Ginger Miller (26:06):

Okay, and Kim, what you just mentioned is soft skills, and we all have a ton of them that we leave on the table. So I want to start there. First, you have to highlight your strengths. We picked up so many different skills and strengths in the military. So start there. Don’t leave your soft skills on the table

(26:26):

Because the soft skills will translate from resume to resume, and employers can easily pick those up because that’s in English, no matter how you cut it, translate your skills. There are a lot of tools out there that will assist you with doing that. And better yet, there’s programs that will help you, like the program that we have in the Women Veterans transition space that will help you not just on paper, but definitely in the interview because I think sometimes you could get it on paper, right? There’s so many tools out there where you could just stick it in there. You could Google it, you could take what you did in the military, stick it in there, and it will spit it out and put it on your resume. That’s not the problem. The problem will be when you get in front of that employer and he asks you a question, he ask you to translate it.

(27:12):

So you have to be prepared, not just on paper, but in person. So we want you to be prepared. You need to be a walking talking resume. And I think that honestly, most women veterans are savvy. We’re very savvy. We just need to be fine tuned a little bit and off we go. So what we are doing is refining our transition space program for 2025 to do just that. Because what I’ve seen across the board is that it really doesn’t take that long, but we just need a little hand up and community and off we go. But back to the whole soft skills, don’t leave those soft skills on the table. Identify what it is that you did in the military and how you can bring that to the civilian sector and do that extremely well and be confident. Confidence is a great skill. It’s a skill that you want to need. Leadership is a skill that you’re going to need. So I led, I did. But leadership is real, confidence is real. And so many times we lose that in the transition. That is so important.

Kim Lott (28:18):

Yeah, I mean for the most confident people, just having any stint of unemployment is so demoralizing.

Ginger Miller (28:25):

It is. But that’s why you have got to be prepared. Programs are important to capture these women veterans before they get out so that you can have that confidence, right? When you are prepared, you’ll be confident.

Kim Lott (28:39):

And what a great time to be alive, Ms. Ginger, because this was not around when you and I were transitioned. I mean, I look at the landscape now and I just recently kind of walked my son through this. He just got out of the Army active duty, and the amount of programs that were available to him to help him in that transition was mind boggling. So nobody has to go through this on their own. There’s so many resources out there to grab and people that want to embrace you, but let’s put our focus on the employers now. How can employers improve the recruitment strategies to attract more women veterans? So it’s one thing for the women to be prepared and have that resume and have those interview skills. How can employers improve their recruitment strategies so that the women can find them?

Ginger Miller (29:25):

I would say Nike, just do it. I mean, to me, that’s so easy. Just do it. You have got to be intentional, right? I’ve seen many employment fairs, employment, this, employment that, but you’ve got to be intentional.

(29:46):

You just can’t do it and be like, oh, we’ve only seen so many partner up with a great women veterans organization. One like WVI. Of course, I’m going to promote WVI because our expertise is like no other. We focus on outreach and engagement. We’re a national nonprofit organization, but you’ve got to be intentional. Most employers probably don’t even know how many women veterans they have working for them. You’ve got to be intentional. You know that there’s a struggle for you to reach women veterans then be intentional about reaching women veterans. It’s not a goal.

Kim Lott (30:22):

Be public about it. I mean, there’s social media, there’s all kinds of campaigns. There’s ways that you can get that word out that you are friendly space for that. And there’s a lot of other ways. I know even here at DirectEmployers, we have under our umbrella, we have Recruit Rooster and they are able to help employers with these talent attract videos so a company’s own employees can get on and do little testimonies about organization. That goes a long way. That goes a long way that not the top brass. Those are the employees that are giving that testimony about that organization.

Ginger Miller (31:00):

Someone had reached out to me and we were having a conversation from DirectEmployees and we were having a conversation and they wanted to know how they could reach more women veterans, and I told them that I was thoroughly impressed because on their website, one of their testimonials was a woman veteran.

Kim Lott (31:16):

There you go.

Ginger Miller (31:17):

So how intentional is that? It was a woman veteran who came to work for them. That’s being intentional.

(31:23):

So, you have to highlight what it is that you want to be. So if you want to attract women, veterans, put ’em on your website. But that’s what I mean about being intentional.

Kim Lott (31:31):

Exactly. Are there any other best practices that you wanted to mention

Ginger Miller (31:38):

That you’ve seen? I haven’t seen as far as recruitment and retention for women veterans, I haven’t seen a lot of best practices, but I believe that they are on the way.

(31:51):

What I have seen, honestly, and this is not like I’m being so serious DirectEmployers, has been very intentional within the last six months with what you’re doing for women veterans. And I just honestly feel that best practices is to let women veterans drive the train for women veterans when it comes to employment. Seek out the women veterans in your workplace and let them be intentional. For 2025 the best practices that I have seen is through the ERGs where women veterans are stepping up to the plate to say, I want to host this event for women veterans. I want to do this for women veterans. I want to see if we can bring in more women veterans. It’s the women veterans that are driving the training for women veterans.

Kim Lott (32:38):

Yeah, absolutely. Ms. Ginger, what role, and we’re going to talk about diversity and inclusion now. What role can diversity and inclusion initiatives, like you’re saying, ERGs play in helping companies not only recruit, but retain the women veterans? And you kind of spoke a little bit to that, but to give it a little bit more depth, what role can they play to help that?

Ginger Miller (33:05):

For years, I’ve been almost like when I think about diversity and inclusion, I think about diversity and inclusion. And then there’s two spaces for me as a nonprofit, it’s diversity and inclusion, and it’s the veteran space. So I don’t know if that’s what you mean, but I just truly feel that women veterans have a better shot in diversity and inclusion because we are women who are diversified and we need to be included because it’s easier to teach someone about a woman who has served

(33:42):

Than to try to beat the door down in the veteran space to say, let us in. Because it’s like a veteran is a veteran, is a veteran. You don’t need your own programs over here. So we lag and we become employed, and we become homeless and we commit suicide. When we talk about a woman who just happened to serve, there comes diversity and inclusion. So that’s why I’m glad you asked that question, but most companies don’t even know. And it goes back to the same thing I stated, how many women veterans work for them. So you need to set a goal,

(34:15):

Set a goal, meet that goal, right? Partner with women veterans groups.

Kim Lott (34:21):

That’s key.

Ginger Miller (34:22):

How many of them exist? Just do it. Ask yourself why you’re doing it and why should you do it? Right? So diversity is not just good for the company. Diversity is good for that woman veteran, because women veterans are number one, women. We are diverse. We check all the boxes. Some women veterans are disabled, black, white, Hispanic, L-G-B-T-Q. So when you want to talk about an initiative, that’s a diversity and inclusion initiative. And so I don’t know all the ins and outs of every corporation. We’re talking to one corporation now that is really considering bringing us over into their diversity and inclusion initiatives versus the veterans initiatives.

Kim Lott (35:06):

Very good.

Ginger Miller (35:07):

Because there we can do everything. We can move freely with employment, with everything.

Kim Lott (35:12):

Absolutely. So I guess one final question, and then we’re going to get into some rapid fire fun questions that we have. What final advice would you give to employers who want to make a meaningful impact in hiring and supporting women veterans in their workforce?

Ginger Miller (35:31):

I think we’ve answered that in so many different ways, but I guess the advice would really ask yourself why I haven’t done it already? Why not? The advice would be to educate yourself on the women veteran population. Educate yourself. Find out how many women veterans work for you and get to know them. Carve out that space for women veterans, not just for the Veterans Day holiday, women’s history month, but sit down and have lunch with a group of women veterans and find out how amazing we are and the talents that we bring to the table and our leadership and our resiliency, and just how we have that effect of getting it done like no other.

(36:18):

And then you will realize, you know what? We really need to hire more women veterans. If you want somebody that’s going to get it done, hire a women veteran because we are going to get it done. We manage households and we manage your workplace. That’s amazing.

Kim Lott (36:34):

And talking to them is important because you might find that there are talents and expertise that you can mind to use elsewhere in your organization. Women, veterans, just like male veterans, there’s a large underemployment piece that goes on when we leave the military. So oftentimes we’re stuck in an organization and we’re underutilized.

Ginger Miller (36:56):

You took the words right out of my mouth, underutilized. And you know why? Because sometimes people say underemployed, but underutilized because we are making that scramble during the great transition, and we’re going to take something and we’re probably cheating ourself or we are close to it. But then also that employer, you may be cheating yourself too because you have a Ginger Miller in your workplace and I’m being underutilized.

Kim Lott (37:23):

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, that was awesome, Ms. Ginger. Okay, we’re going to get into some fun stuff right now. We’ll close out with a fun rapid fire question series. So I’m going to go through a series of short questions, and all you have to do is say the very first thing that comes to mind. So no overthinking. Okay.

Ginger Miller (37:43):

Okay. I’m going to close my eyes. I’m going to close my eyes.

Kim Lott (37:48):

Okay. Finish the phrase, the way to my heart is through

Ginger Miller (37:53):

Being authentic.

Kim Lott (37:54):

Okay. I like that. See, for me, it’s to my stomach because that’s what I always hear is just that association. Right? Or maybe that’s just true. I don’t know. Okay ebook or physical book?

Ginger Miller (38:08):

Physical book.

Kim Lott (38:10):

Interesting. Okay. Hardcover, paperback?

Ginger Miller (38:13):

Hardcover, hardcover.

Kim Lott (38:15):

Very much interesting. Best career advice you ever received?

Ginger Miller (38:21):

Just Do it.

Kim Lott (38:22):

Just do it. Okay. I got to go back on the other question. So are you a smell the pages of the book kind of person thing?

Ginger Miller (38:28):

I am.

Kim Lott (38:29):

I was thinking because most hardcover people, that’s what they love. They love the feel, they love the smell of the pages. Okay. So just do it. Very good. Okay. Go-to snacks. Savory or sweet?

Ginger Miller (38:43):

Savory.

Kim Lott (38:44):

There you go. Okay. Favorite quote or motto?

Ginger Miller (38:49):

If you can’t help somebody, don’t hurt em. Yes.

Kim Lott (38:52):

I love that. I love that. Okay, one last question. Navy or Army?

Ginger Miller (38:57):

Go Navy.

Kim Lott (38:59):

I had to ask that wasn’t on my list, but you know how to throw that out there.

Ginger Miller (39:04):

Go Navy all day. What?

Kim Lott (39:06):

And we say that in jest. We love all. We love all the branches. I am team,

Ginger Miller (39:11):

We do. We do

Kim Lott (39:12):

All the branches, but it’s just a fun little thing that we are obligated to do it. I mean, you got do. So Ms. Ginger, you already know. It’s been my honor, having you join the DE Talk podcast and for you to partner with us and be in relationship with us. I mean, you have quite a year already in 2024, your story and efforts continue to evolve. They have a wonderful conference coming up. So I don’t know if this is going to air before that or after, but I’m hoping that you have a wonderful turnout for that leadership and diversity conference.

Ginger Miller (39:47):

Thank you.

Kim Lott (39:47):

Truly, as a woman veteran myself, I can truly say your program shapes the lives of countless women. You’ve provided solid guidance for our listeners, I know they’re going to get a lot out of this, and I know you have so much more that you could have shared. So if you’re looking for stuff on Ginger Miller, you can Google and you can go down that rabbit hole until your heart is content for sure. But if our listeners would like to connect or have questions or would like to become more involved with Women Veterans Interactive Foundation, please share the best way that they can get in touch with you.

Ginger Miller (40:20):

Our website is www.womenveteransinteractive.org. You can check me out on LinkedIn. I’m Ginger Miller on LinkedIn. My email is gm@womenveteransinteractive.org.

Kim Lott (40:34):

Wonderful. Thank you again for being with us. And they don’t know, but we had some technical difficulties right before this. So I’m going to tell you one thing I learned about Ginger. She is a get it done kind of chick. She going to figure something out. She’s a little bit stubborn there. She’s like, Nope, nope. We are going to sit here and wait until we get this thing figured out. And that’s what we need. That’s the biggest need. So I thank you for that. I thank you for that. And again, it was just really an honor having this conversation with you. My pleasure, my shipmate. I do appreciate you.

Ginger Miller (41:08):

My pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you.

DirectEmployers (41:11):

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