DE Talk | Reframing Disability Accommodations as a Performance Strategy, Not a Risk File

Season 8 • Episode 5

What if the accommodation request on your desk is one of the best performance tools you have? Too many organizations still treat disability accommodations as a compliance task: a box to check, a cost to contain, a risk to manage. That mindset may be costing them productivity, retention, and talent. Most accommodations cost nothing to implement, and more than a quarter of Americans have a disability, most of them invisible. Your workforce likely already includes people who could do their best work with the right support.

In this episode of the DE Talk Podcast, host Michelle Krefft of DirectEmployers Association sits down with Charlie Kramer, founder of Disability Reimagined, for a candid conversation about why accommodations belong in your performance strategy, not your risk file. Drawing on life with 96% vision loss and years of coaching both employers and the disability community, Charlie shares accommodations that may surprise you, the one golden rule every manager should follow when an employee asks for support, and a quick, practical step HR and talent acquisition teams can take this month. If you’ve ever wondered how to make accommodations simpler, more effective, and better for your entire team, this episode is for you.

About DE Talk

The DE Talk monthly podcast features honest and open dialogue between powerhouse industry experts on a variety of HR topics ranging from OFCCP compliance advice to emerging recruitment marketing trends, equal employment opportunity initiatives, and insightful solutions that help infuse new life into your HR strategies.

Episode Interviewer

Episode Guest

Transcript

DirectEmployers Association (00:00):

Get ready. The DE Talk podcast starts now. Insightful conversations and dialogue helping you put the human factor back in HR.

Michelle Krefft (00:09):

Welcome to DE Talk. I’m Michelle Krefft, Disability and Community Outreach Specialist at DirectEmployers. And today’s conversation gets right to the heart of what National Disability Employment Awareness Month or NDEAM is really about. We’re talking about accommodations, but not the way most employers are used to talking about them. Too often accommodations get filed under HR compliance, a box to check, a request to process, a risk to manage. Today, we’re going to flip that script and talk about accommodations as a performance strategy, a practical, often low cost or no cost way to help disabled individuals do their best work, stay with your organization and contribute at the highest level. To help us dig into this, I’m thrilled to announce a brand new voice to this podcast, Charlie Kramer, founder of Disability Reimagined. Charlie is a certified professional in accessibility core competencies, coach and speaker who works at the intersection of disability self-advocacy and workplace accessibility.

(01:18):

Through Disability Reimagined, Charlie helps disabled adults build confidence, self-advocacy skills, and practical communication tools so they can stop shrinking and start leading. And on the employer side, Charlie helps organizations reframe accommodation as essential assets, not last resorts, so they can help disabled employees maximize their output, impact, and retention. Welcome Charlie. We’re so glad to have you and I can’t wait to get into this conversation. Before we get into the specifics, I want to set the stage with you just a little bit. Could you share with our listeners a little bit about yourself, your company, and what led you into this work?

Charlie Kramer (02:02):

Yeah, definitely. I think you’ve already done a great job. So I am an individual who lives with blindness. I have 96% vision loss. And for me, I grew up actually in a really interesting environment that I thought was normal at the time. My family has a dominant gene causing us to progressively lose our peripheral vision over time. And because it’s a dominant gene, that means there’s a fifty fifty shot that someone will get it in the family. And truly about 50% of my family actually has the same disability that I do. So I grew up around people living with this disability in a multitude of different ways. And in many ways it taught me both what to do and what not to do when living with a disability. And I had to learn how to show up and live life with my disability in a way that really felt authentic to me and worked for the current world that we live in.

(02:58):

So within that, I recognized that a lot of people think of disability as an automatic negative thing. And I got really curious about that process and how to not only accept your disability and live with it as something that brings pride, but to use it as a real asset and not just in your career with accommodations that we’re going to talk about today, but also within your relationships and who you are in your every single day life. For me, I’m at a point now where if somebody handed me a magic pill and said, “Would you like to cure your blindness?” I would say, “No, thank you.” I really love being blind. And the work that we do at Disability Reimagined doesn’t necessarily help people to fall in love with their disability, but it does help them to fall in love with their life with their disability and learn how to leverage that in a way to create success and impact.

(03:50):

And we do that through self-leadership. And accommodations is a huge part of that. And so many people think accommodations are a handout or some sort of necessity or last resort, but they’re really an advantage that can help people to do their best and most impactful work.

Michelle Krefft (04:06):

Well, and I think following up on that, an accommodation for one person really helps everybody in the workforce, right? Yeah. So powerful.

Charlie Kramer (04:16):

Yeah, absolutely. The truth is that we all have accommodations, but when the fact of disability comes into the equation, the negative connotations of disability come into play and make people believe that their accommodations make them less than, less capable, less valuable, less worthy. But the truth is even something as simple as delegation is an accommodation saying, “I can’t do this on my own. I’m going to delegate to the team and that allows us to get it done in a much more efficient way.” So really reframing the way that we view accommodations can help us to become much more productive and much more connected teams within our work environments.

Michelle Krefft (04:56):

Yeah, 100%. So Charlie, I love that you work with both individuals with disabilities and employers. How does supporting one audience help you support the other audience? I’m assuming that you gain great information that can be shared between the two audiences.

Charlie Kramer (05:14):

Definitely. You can’t really work with one without working with the other. They go hand in hand. And in terms of the clients that we work with, whether it’s an employer or it’s the individuals who are potentially seeking employment, we want them to recognize that having support on both sides and commitment on both sides is really what makes things cohesive and connected and strong. We want people to have the best outcomes possible. So when an employer is understanding of the power that an accommodation has and the untapped potential of the disabled workforce, it only allows their disabled employees to grow and to become impactful employees that they want to retain and to promote. That saves them money and it saves them time. And it means that the investment that they’re making into their employees is really bringing a huge return on investment. So that’s super powerful.

(06:14):

And then at the same time, we want to make sure as a company, Disability Reimagine, that we are empowering and providing tools to the individuals that we work with to know that they are worthy of taking up space and that their accommodations help to make them actually even more valuable to their companies. Confusion does not lead to good results. Clarity does. And knowing what you need and making it simple keeps things moving as fast and as effectively as possible.

Michelle Krefft (06:44):

Yes, for sure. So much of the conversation around accommodation still centers on obligation, what employers are legally required to do, but you really talk about accommodations very differently, so let’s kind of start there. What do employers often misunderstand about disability accommodations and how does that show up as compliance-based thinking instead of performance-based thinking?

Charlie Kramer (07:12):

I would say that there’s two main concerns that a lot of employers have, and they’re pretty black and white. It’s what are the legal ramifications of not providing accommodations and how much is it going to cost me? Those are the two big questions and we might as well not dance around the facts. The truth is that yes, you are legally obligated to provide reasonable accommodations to your employees. That’s one side of it. The other side of it is that accommodations traditionally are actually very inexpensive. There’s been a report recently by JAN, which showcased that most accommodations, about 61% of accommodations have no implementation cost at all, and the median cost of the other 39% of those accommodations is $300, one-time fee. So really accommodations are not expensive, especially in today’s world where there’s so much technology, it can kind of feel overwhelming, but the reality is that oftentimes it’s quick, it’s inexpensive, and it only helps people to do their best work.

(08:15):

If you’re a company that doesn’t want your employees to do your best work, what are we talking about here? It doesn’t make any sense.

Michelle Krefft (08:21):

Makes no sense.

Charlie Kramer (08:23):

It makes no sense. Yeah.

Michelle Krefft (08:24):

It’s interesting. I think I heard at one time the cost of losing an employee was over two times their salary. So when you kind of think about somebody asking for a no cost accommodation or a $300 accommodation and putting the cost of losing them really puts it into perspective.

Charlie Kramer (08:43):

Retention is a huge deal, especially for a lot of major corporations. And it’s also the cost is huge, but what about the time that you’re going to spend retraining someone to do that job? And all we’re talking about here is a simple accommodation. It’s just a slightly adjusted way to do work. I’m using an accommodation right now. I’m using a standing desk. That’s a low cost option for people who might be neurodivergent and need to move their bodies a little bit more. That helps them to do their best work. That’s a lot cheaper and easier to provide than it is to hire a completely new employee.

Michelle Krefft (09:18):

Yes. You know what, Charlie? I’m using an accommodation too because I have three screens up and I can’t imagine doing my work without.

Charlie Kramer (09:25):

Nice.

Michelle Krefft (09:27):

Yes.

Charlie Kramer (09:27):

I love it.

Michelle Krefft (09:28):

How can the right accommodation affect an employee’s ability to meet expectations of their role?

Charlie Kramer (09:35):

As a multilayered question, the first thing is let’s talk about human beings, period. Human beings like being heard and they like being supported. When someone feels valued, they show up differently. That’s a fact. When someone brings you flowers or says that they care about you or that you’re a valuable member to the team, you show up differently. Your energy is different. You want to contribute. At the end of the day, it is a team. You want team players. So that’s one side of it. The other aspect is what sense does it make to have your employees trying to solve problems in ways that their bodies and their minds are not capable of completing? I always like to use myself as an example. So I’m blind, I have 96% vision loss. I see like I’m looking through a straw. If I was an employee of a company and you told me that I had to visually complete a task and I couldn’t use audio descriptions or voice to text to be able to complete that task, really what you’re telling me is it’s more important for you to do it my way than for you to do it in a way that’s fast, sustainable, and reliable.

(10:49):

And when it’s broken down in those contexts, it actually makes no sense at all for someone to not receive an accommodation. So that’s one side of it, is the practicality. The other component of this is the importance and the responsibility of the employee to know exactly what will be helpful because this is a point where I think a lot of people with disabilities get confused and it’s understandable. There’s so much desire for someone within the disabled community to feel heard and to receive an accommodation that sometimes they get distracted from taking the time to learn what the accommodations are that will truly make things helpful and to make it very simple, low cognitive load and almost effortless for that to be implemented. Now there’s still going to be bias and difficulty on the side of employers. That’s something that we want to combat. And how can we make that process as simple as possible for them that’s only going to increase your potential, not only to receive your accommodation, but to show up as your best self and to do your best work.

Michelle Krefft (12:00):

I was thinking when you were giving your example of a business doing it my way versus the way that’s best for the employees, and I think about that culture, how that would be for everybody, not just the individuals who need an accommodation. And I would guess their turnover is a lot higher than those companies that really ask their employees, “How can I help you do your job?”

Charlie Kramer (12:24):

Yeah, absolutely. As a founder and the CEO of my own company, I have a team of 10 people and I think about it all the time. I need to hear back from them in this way and I want them to do it, blah, blah, blah, and I want it in the Google Drive in this specific order. And then I pause. I go, “That’s what I want.” But what really matters? So that’s part of the work that we do with organizations as well is working with supervisors who are interacting with employees that do have disabilities and helping them to recognize that it’s not all about what they want to receive in terms of how it’s done. It’s about making sure that the work is done properly and effectively and efficiently. And sometimes that doesn’t look like the way that you envisioned it and that’s okay.

Michelle Krefft (13:11):

Yes, that’s okay. But it’s better for everyone.

Charlie Kramer (13:15):

Absolutely.

Michelle Krefft (13:16):

So are you able to give some examples of accommodations that help employees work more effectively, including some that might surprise employers?

Charlie Kramer (13:26):

So a big one within the disabled community that COVID helped identify in a big way was working from home. And this is multifaceted. I think a lot of people look at this in terms of culture and they say, “Well, everyone needs to be in the office. That’s what we do at our company. Everyone has to be here.” Logically, okay, I get that mindset. And what about someone like me who doesn’t drive, who uses public transportation, could need to use Ubers or Lyfts or find other rides that can be really expensive and cost a lot of time as well, not just the financial impact. And then when we think about the travel involved, how taxing it would be on our body, on our mind, on our eyes, and how that might set us up for success or not set us up for success once we actually enter the building.

(14:21):

Now on the other side of it, are there cases where people are sitting at home eating popcorn, watching Netflix and not doing their work? I mean, probably, right? That’s the way the world works. I would say it’s more your responsibility to make sure that you’re hiring the right people. But if you know that you’re hiring good people and that they also have a disability, something like working from home can be life-changing for them and it can completely change the way that they show up for your company.

Michelle Krefft (14:48):

I think even the working from home piece, I heard you say you have a standing desk and you probably have your office set up just exactly how it needs to be. And so you’re super productive. You probably work more hours.

Charlie Kramer (15:02):

I do.

Michelle Krefft (15:04):

And thinking about having to reproduce that office at another place and would it be the same and could you still be as productive, not only the transportation piece, but all of the other things that go with it. Yeah.

Charlie Kramer (15:18):

Transportation is just one aspect of it. There’s so many other pieces within an office and office culture. And yes, is that different? And is it outside the norm of what companies have been like for years? Facts, yes. And is it okay for things to be different as long as they create more productivity? Yes. Also, yes.

Michelle Krefft (15:40):

For sure. Are there differences in how accommodations show up for visible versus non-visible disabilities that employers should be aware of?

Charlie Kramer (15:50):

Absolutely. This is a massive topic. So the first thing that I want people to recognize is just how common disability is. As of now, it’s estimated that around 28% of Americans have a disability and 70% of people with disabilities have what’s called an invisible disability, which means that you cannot see their disability. You wouldn’t know that they’re struggling, and there’s so many different types of invisible disabilities. There’s mental health diagnoses, there’s neurodivergence, there’s things like fibromyalgia, even cerebral palsy can be something that’s not visible. Or people who are deaf and hard of hearing that don’t use a hearing aid, or maybe they do and their hair covers it, or someone like me who is blind or low vision and doesn’t use a cane in the office. The important thing to think about here is that there’s a lot of stigma around proving that you have a disability, and if you can’t see it, then it’s not real.

(16:50):

Well, living as blind, I know that that’s not a truth of life. Just because I can’t see something doesn’t mean it’s not there. Ask me the last time that I ran into a door. Just because I couldn’t see it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. The same is true for disabilities. Now, a lot of times people who have a disability that isn’t visible are nervous to share it, and it can actually be a very active choice to make your disability invisible and to not use an accommodation to pull out your hearing aid before you walk in the office, to fold up your cane two blocks away from your office so that nobody sees you walking in with it. There’s so many different components to this, and the stigma that shows up and the fear of being seen as less than is really difficult. And I think it’s something that employers need to really think long and hard about.

(17:46):

And it’s also something that people with disabilities with invisible disabilities also need to spend time with and recognize how there might be avenues and ways to show up with their disability in a more visible way that would be supportive. Maybe not showing every aspect, but opening up in certain capacities that would make your work and make your life more sustainable and just better in the workplace.

Michelle Krefft (18:12):

I’ve been in the disability employment world for over 25 years, and though we’ve made a lot of progress, it still makes me so sad when we’re talking about people, the stigma of people with disabilities. And sometimes I feel we’ve made all this progress, but then we haven’t. If we still have stigma and we still have people not wanting to disclose that they have a disability or asking for an accommodation.

Charlie Kramer (18:40):

It’s everywhere. It’s even showcased in just how commonplace diagnoses are now. We now have the tools and the resources to diagnose people properly, and that diagnosis is actually a really positive thing because it gives people information and the understanding of what they’ve been struggling with in silence for so long. That doesn’t automatically make them less than or mean that they are going to need handouts, but it identifies ways that they can be better supported so they can live more effectively and fully. And that is something that should be celebrated, not shamed.

Michelle Krefft (19:14):

Right. I agree. Well, we still got some work to do, Charlie.

Charlie Kramer (19:19):

Yes, we do. And that’s why we’re doing it.

Michelle Krefft (19:21):

That’s why we’re doing it.

Charlie Kramer (19:22):

Yeah.

Michelle Krefft (19:23):

How should accommodations be revisited over time as a role, a team, or if a person’s needs change?

Charlie Kramer (19:31):

This goes back to my point earlier around the employee or the individual having a really clear understanding of what their accommodations are. It’s part of what we do within our programming at Disability Reimagined. Our flagship program is called the Self-Leadership Experience. And in the final module, we help our coaches, help our participants to identify what their accommodations actually are, to write them out, to make them clear, and to give them the tools to recognize when and how they shift. Because just because you wrote them on a piece of paper doesn’t mean that those accommodations are going to stay the same for 20, 30, 40 years. They’re going to shift. And disabilities also fluctuate. So it’s about giving yourself the ability to be curious, not judgmental when those things are shifting. So that’s the individual’s responsibility. And then how do we communicate that in a way that is low cognitive load and completely understandable to your team?

(20:31):

So that I think is really clear. That is your responsibility with your disability to understand those things. No one can fully identify and communicate your accommodations for you. They can support you in that process, but that is your responsibility. On the other side, your team is there to be completely understanding and to ask questions like, “Hey, we’ve been using this accommodation and we’ve really noticed it’s been supportive. What about it has been supportive and is there anything else that we can do to keep improving the work that you’re doing because it’s been great?” That type of question allows someone to soften, feel supported, and to show up more authentically. And those are the types of people that eventually become managers and leaders and VPs because they understand what it takes to do work effectively.

Michelle Krefft (21:24):

I love that question. I’ve always heard that the accommodation process is a living document and should be revisited all of the time. And I often wonder how often individuals and their team revisit that accommodation process or do they just ask for the accommodation, get it, kind of put it away in a file and not revisit? Sometimes it makes me wonder. So I love the question, how is your accommodation helping you? What is it that’s helping you and how can we continue to help you?

Charlie Kramer (21:53):

Absolutely. And going back to another statistic here is that employers involved with that JAN report, which is an organization that provides accommodation services, essentially they said that in the report, 85% of employers reported improved retention for the accommodations that they provided amongst those employees and that there was a 52% increase in employee productivity for the people that received those accommodations. Those hard facts on how helpful it can be. So again, it’s about what kind of questions are you asking? How is this helping you? And what can we do to make your work more productive? Not, this is obviously not working and something needs to change. You can even feel the tone difference in that. And just those differences in questions makes your employees show up differently and do work more effectively.

Michelle Krefft (22:56):

For sure. I remember it was a while ago, but when I was with public vocational rehabilitation as a counselor, I was working with a company who had hired a young man with a disability and he got a new manager. And so his accommodations changed and HR got involved and they amended his accommodations to help him be more productive, completely different accommodations. And HR called me and he goes, “Oh my gosh, Michelle, somebody came marching into my office and was mad.” And he’s like, “Oh my gosh, here it comes.” And she goes, “You know what? I’m so proud of you. My son has a disability and I never thought he could work, and I work at a company that makes things happen for everybody.” She said, “I’m so proud to work here.” The HR manager was such a champion. He goes, “But this just shifted everything, what we do as leaders and how it impacts everybody.”

Charlie Kramer (23:55):

Yeah, absolutely. And there’s a lot of people out there saying, “Oh, people with disabilities, they just take the welfare check and they don’t want to do anything, but those are also the same people that when people with disabilities are applying for a job, they say, Oh, they can’t do this job and you need this, this and that. Well, get out of here. Well, what do you actually want? Do you want them to work or do you not? We have to set up the opportunities and capacity for them to actually show up and do their work. And that’s why I love that story that you just shared. There needs to be more success stories like that.

Michelle Krefft (24:27):

You’re right. There does. So how can managers respond well when an employee discloses a need or requests an accommodation? And we’ve kind of talked about this.

Charlie Kramer (24:37):

Yeah, a little bit. My golden rule is to act like it’s normal. That’s the biggest thing is think about it when you’re just interacting with anyone. I like to think about being at a family barbecue and you walk up to the trays of food and someone can see that you have a disability and that you need some help. The way that someone shows up and invites you into that process of support can feel either really icky or really awesome. So the difference between, is there anything I can do to help you? Oh, don’t worry. I’ve got it. It’s going to be okay, blah, blah, gross. Or, hey, let me know if you need any help. And if you see someone struggling and they’re not wanting to receive the help, that’s also okay, but it’s still good for you to say, Hey, let me know if you need anything.

(25:28):

I’m happy to support you. And then let them tell you what actually would be supportive. The same thing goes when you’re scooping beans onto a plate as it is in the office. So when somebody says, this is the support that I would need, treat it as normal. Needing support is normal.

Michelle Krefft (25:47):

It’s always best to say, let me know if you need anything.

Charlie Kramer (25:50):

Absolutely. I tend to enjoy interactions far more when people give me space to let them know what is actually supportive to me. If we assume, we’re always going to get into trouble. I’d say 95% of the time when you assume you’ll be wrong, it’s a fact of life that you continue to learn as you get older. And it’s just the truth when it comes to disability. Say an employer or a manager has worked with someone, let’s say has cerebral palsy before, and then a new hire comes in and they also have cerebral palsy. Those two people’s experiences with cerebral palsy is going to be vastly different. And if you assume that person needs the same thing as your previous employee, you’ll be wrong. Even to the point of my family and I have the exact same gene that is mutated and people within our family show up differently with our disabilities and receive support in different ways.

(26:49):

And that’s typical.

Michelle Krefft (26:51):

Charlie, I have to tell you about a time that I assumed.

Charlie Kramer (26:55):

No, I’m here. Let’s do it. Oh boy. What’s the tea?What’s the tea?

Michelle Krefft (26:59):

I had a supervisor that was blind and every morning I came to the office and I’m like, “Good morning, Mary. It’s good to see you. Good morning, Marcia. Nice to see you. Hi, Rick. Nice to see you.” As I’m walking down the hall to go to my office. One day my supervisor came in my office and he goes, “Michelle, I noticed that you say good morning to everybody but me. Why is that?” And I said, “Well, because you can’t say it’s nice to see you back and I didn’t want you to be uncomfortable.” He goes, “What you’re doing is making me uncomfortable.” I’m like, “Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry. I assumed that I was doing the right thing, but obviously I wasn’t.” And so I love that he came and talked to me and it was definitely a moment that I knew we’re always learning and no matter how educated we are or how deep we are into disability employment work, we’re always learning.

Charlie Kramer (27:57):

Yeah, absolutely. You’re being really vulnerable. I appreciate it. And I’m sure everyone else does too. I got to step it up here a little bit. I mean, you’re so spot on and people will do that to me too. They’re like, “Well, I didn’t want to say good to see you because you might not be able to see me or good to hear from you because you couldn’t hear whatever it might be.” And you just never know. One of the worst experiences that I’ve ever had at an airport actually came from an employee from TSA who had a blind sibling, I believe, and they were adamant that they knew exactly how to help me, would not let me speak and were grabbing me, trying to pull me in different directions. I felt so violated and so overwhelmed that I literally had to force their hand off of…

(28:48):

This is a TSA officer, right? It’s kind of scary to do that. I had to grab their hand and push it off me and say, “I do not want your help. Please step away from me.” And then they were yelling at me from afar like, “You don’t know it. I know what.” I was like, “Oh my gosh, you’re supposed to help me.” It was one of the worst experiences I’ve had, and that person felt like they knew exactly the right way to help. And walking away from it, I have empathy and understanding for the fact that what they were doing would’ve probably been very helpful to their sibling and other people. I just really appreciate, and I think a lot of people do, being able to share what exactly is helpful to us. And when you give your employees the opportunity to do that, it’s really powerful.

(29:33):

And then your mind might go to, oh my gosh, we have to a la carte every accommodation and we have to be so involved, but okay, take a deep breath. So many accommodations, 65% plus are free, $300 or less for the ones that cost. And a lot of times, even though it’s individualized, it’s simple to implement. It’s not a difficult process. It can be a simplified experience. So just because it’s a la carte doesn’t mean that it’s difficult.

Michelle Krefft (30:04):

And one advice I always gave to businesses when I worked with them when we were talking about disability was they would call me and say, “So-and-so requested an accommodation. What do you think?” I’m like, “Ask them. They know what’s going to work best for them because they’ve navigated this their whole life. They can tell you exactly what’s going to help them to do their job better and they’re going to appreciate you asking them versus me.”

Charlie Kramer (30:29):

Exactly. Yeah, that’s a huge thing. So many people have the fear of doing the wrong thing. And I always say that it’s more important to have the courage in the face of doing the wrong thing to say, “Thanks so much for showing me the right way. I’ll do it differently next time.” That’s it.

Michelle Krefft (30:52):

That’s it.

Charlie Kramer (30:53):

And we appreciate that more than you trying to assume or not saying anything or helping at all.

Michelle Krefft (30:58):

For sure. Through Disability Reimagined, you coach disabled professionals on self-advocacy. What holds people back from requesting what they need and how can employers make that step feel safer?

Charlie Kramer (31:12):

Good question. I was actually training a group of our coaches today and we are focusing on separating the internalized ableism that they’ve learned from society and what is actually true. A lot of times people with disabilities are acting based on the belief systems of society and the fears of what could happen rather than what the truth is of what they deserve. When you start at the core of knowing that yes, my life is going to be more difficult in certain ways because of my disability, and that also doesn’t change the fact of what I’m deserving of receiving, from that place, you are able to advocate with a sense of calm and kindness that actually invites people into the process and garners you more respect because that’s really what we’re trying to do. It’s not just that we want to receive what we need or advocate for what we need, but we want to do it in a way that creates a team, a team of support.

(32:17):

And when it comes to employers, honestly, one of the biggest things that you can do is invest in opportunities for your employees with disabilities to learn those skills and then to support them in its implementation. Whether that’s through my company or through other organizations out there, if you’re showcasing that their development, not just as employees, but as employees with disabilities matters to you, they will feel more seen and that will allow them to ask for what they need with more confidence and for it to be a sense of pride for not just them, but for the company. And that’s really the ultimate goal.

Michelle Krefft (32:58):

What’s one shift in policy training or mindset that HR and talent acquisition teams could make this month to move forward towards performance-based thinking? I know. We’ve talked about a lot of things that they could do.

Charlie Kramer (33:14):

This month, huh?

Michelle Krefft (33:16):

This month.

Charlie Kramer (33:16):

That’s a key component of this question. It’s got to be quick and actionable. I think one of the biggest things that is really powerful is to help to normalize how common disability is and for their managers and their teams to actually have an understanding of some of the numbers that we’ve been talking about. If you present them with the facts, even if you just send out an email, “Hey, it’s National Disability Employment Awareness Month. Here’s some basic statistics on the disabled workforce and receiving accommodations that we value as a company and we want you to always remember in these scenarios.” Just list off those facts. That can change someone’s mindset who’s going into a room to talk about accommodations or even a hiring room from this person has a disability, that means they can’t do the work properly to, “Okay, this person has a disability.” There might be some accommodations to help them.

(34:12):

I could ask them about that. And I wonder how their disability can actually be an advantage and an asset in the work that they do because my disability has provided a ton of resources to me. It’s taught me how to be creative. It’s taught me how to be reliable, patient, and resilient. And these are all qualities that employers are looking for in every single employee. So just knowing the facts I think can be really helpful. And one other aspect to it is even giving them an understanding of what qualifies as a disability. I bet half of those people or more who are thinking about someone who has a disability as a negative thing will see their condition on that list and recognize they’re a part of the party.

Michelle Krefft (34:57):

Well, we threw out the stat of 28% earlier, right? So that would mean probably a 28% of that employer’s workforce would have a disability. Whether they identified as having it or not, they would have something would qualify as a disabling condition.

Charlie Kramer (35:16):

Absolutely.

Michelle Krefft (35:17):

With all that we’ve covered, is there one final thought you’d like to share with our employer audience that you think could help them rethink or evolve their accommodation strategy?

Charlie Kramer (35:28):

In anything that we do, it’s all about how can we create work that is productive, efficient, and sustainable. And if you think of accommodations in that light, you’re going to help your workforce to be productive, efficient, and sustainable. We want to do the most amount of work possible in the most efficient way and for it to be sustainable so that when we show back up at work the next day, that we’re not overly exhausted and we can continue to do our best work. And that’s exactly what accommodations help us to do. If you can switch that mindset and look at it in that way and ask leading questions from that mindset, it’s going to completely transform the way that your employees show up and do their best work.

Michelle Krefft (36:14):

I love that. What a perfect thing to end this on.

Charlie Kramer (36:18):

Great. Thank you.

Michelle Krefft (36:20):

Thank you, Charlie. So gosh, I’ve really enjoyed getting to know you and having this conversation today, and I so appreciate you taking time to join DE’s podcast. This conversation is exactly the reframe I think a lot of HR compliance and talent acquisition professionals need going into ending this year. Accommodations aren’t about doing less, they’re about unlocking more. So before we let you go, if our listeners wanted to connect with you to learn more about Disability Reimagined, what would be the best way to find you?

Charlie Kramer (36:59):

The best thing to do, the best place to start, especially if you have a disability yourself, we have an incredible resource. It’s called Your Disability Archetype. And what it does, it allows you to understand the way that you relate to your disability, the patterns surrounding it, and what might be a next stage of growth for you. It’s completely free for anyone to take it. And that also puts you onto our newsletter where you can get up to date with a few upcoming bootcamps that we have, which help people with disabilities to completely reframe the way that they look at their disabilities. We have a three-day bootcamp coming up in November, and we also have our next cohort of our flagship program coming up in early December too. So a bunch of great ways to get involved with us.

Michelle Krefft (37:47):

That would be incredible. Charlie, thank you again for joining us and thank you everybody who has listened to us today.

Charlie Kramer (37:55):

Thanks so much. It was a pleasure being with you all. And Michelle, thanks for a great conversation.

Michelle Krefft (38:00):

Thank you, Charlie.

DirectEmployers Association (38:01):

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