Season 6 • Bonus Episode 8

Since 2007, DirectEmployers has held an exclusive partnership with the National Association of State Workforce Agencies (NASWA) to not only bridge the gap between state workforce agencies and employers seeking top talent, but also to establish the National Labor Exchange, an electronic labor-exchange network that combines DirectEmployers technology with NASWA’s state workforce agency resources. Tune in to this episode of the DE Talk Podcast as we sit down with Scott Sanders, NASWA President & CEO, to discuss this partnership in more detail–including a focus on the NLx Research Hub–and how NASWA’s work helps to further workforce development for the benefit of all.

About DE Talk

The DE Talk monthly podcast features honest and open dialogue between powerhouse industry experts on a variety of HR topics ranging from OFCCP compliance advice to emerging recruitment marketing trends, equal employment opportunity initiatives, and insightful solutions that help infuse new life into your HR strategies.

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Episode Guests

Episode Transcript

DirectEmployers Association (00:00):

Get ready! The DE Talk podcast starts now, insightful conversations and dialogue, helping you put the human factor back in HR.

Shannon Offord (00:09):

Welcome to the DE Talk podcast. I’m Shannon Offord, VP of partnerships and I’m thrilled to be joined today by Scott Sanders, the President and CEO of the National Association of State Workforce Agencies or NASWA. Our collaboration with NASWA started in 2007. We came together to launch the National Labor Exchange or the NLx, the only nonprofit national online labor exchange system in the United States that supports employers and state workforce agencies. Since then, our partnership has only grown driving initiatives that support state workforce agencies, employers, and federal compliance efforts. Today we’ll dive into the impact of our collaboration, talk about the evolution of the NLx and share a look at what’s next. With that, welcome Scott and let’s jump right in.

Scott Sanders (01:00):

Great, great to be with you Shannon. Looking forward to it.

Shannon Offord (01:03):

Thanks for joining us today. I know you’ve got a lot of things going on. It’s tough sometimes to get on your schedule, but I’m glad we were able to make it work today.

Scott Sanders (01:11):

Absolutely.

Shannon Offord (01:13):

We’ve obviously known each other for several years and worked together closely throughout the partnership. Since this is the first time that you’ve been on our podcast and our listeners may not be as familiar with you as I am, why don’t you tell them a little bit about yourself and your career and how it led to NASWA?

Scott Sanders (01:32):

Thanks, Shannon. My interest really in workforce development in a broader nature started really back in 1995. So all of my experience has really been in the private sector and in 1995 I started working for a dental insurance company in Chicago. Fast growing company. I started in May, we took it public by November, did a couple acquisitions, grew it did some Denovo startups here in Indy, also in Detroit, Michigan. And then every good ride that you have in the business world, we ended up selling the company out to Guardian Life Insurance and I was actually commuting in between Chicago and Indianapolis at the time and I had to give my 135 employees kind of a pink slip, give them a severance arrangement. And so it was really my first exposure as an employer to the workforce development side, unemployment insurance and job searching. And so while being here in Indianapolis, got asked to attend a get together with the governor Mitch Daniels, who was looking for individuals to come into state government and help clean it up.

(02:47):

And that’s how I got into state government back in mid 2005. And then really was at the workforce agency for almost 10 years and all good things in the political world. They wanted to make a change and put our sitting house rep into my spot at the work department of Workforce Development. And there was an opening to really go to NASWA and we were doing some great things in Indiana on the workforce development side, working with employers, helping Hoosiers get reemployed, helping incarcerated individuals get reemployed. And so I took the opportunity to go to NASWA and we’re based in DC to really try and bring some of that energy to the workforce community nationally. And so I’ve been at NASWA now for about 10 years. Obviously you and I have known each other probably since the early two thousands or the late two thousands, and it just has really been an opportunity to really continue to showcase what we’re doing and I’m really looking forward to really talking about how both of us from the DirectEmployers side as well as NASWA, have really helped the National Labor Exchange grow.

Shannon Offord (03:53):

Well, thanks for that, Scott. And I know you’ve done some really good things in your time at NASWA and we’ll talk a little bit about that later. But I know you’ve really helped, not only have you had it grow from an employee standpoint, but just an overall standpoint through your leadership there. Like I said, we’ll talk about that a little bit later. Can you explain what NASWA is, how long it’s been around, how it got started? Most of our listeners probably aren’t really that familiar with NAWSA, so if you could talk a little bit about that, that would be great. And also NASWA’s value to both state workforce agencies and employers.

Scott Sanders (04:28):

Sure. So NASWA a has been around, the predecessor company actually was started in 1937, but NASWA is a membership organization just like DirectEmployers. So both you and I, Shannon both service our members and that’s key to our growth. Our members are all of the state workforce agencies, the 50 states District Columbia and the US territories. Similar to DirectEmployers, we are nonpartisan and we are a membership nonprofit. And so all of the state workforce agencies, whether it’s done in one agency or two in some states, because some things are bifurcated, we do help provide employment training, business services as well as they administer the unemployment insurance. They do a lot of work in veterinary employment, which I know you have a hand in that as well. Also, they work on the labor market information programs and we also do quite a bit of work related to technology and their technology.

(05:28):

And so the way NASWA really supports our members is by providing policy expertise. We do a lot of sharing of promising practices similar to what you do at DEAMcon. And then also we do promote innovation and workforce development. And I think all of us know how key technology is and how it will impact the workforce development world as we move forward. And I think your second part of the question is what do we really do to help both employers and state workforce agencies? And I know when I was in Indiana as well as now the number one question from employers are where are the workers? Where are they? Where can we find ’em? And I think that’s what everybody is looking for is they’re looking for that talent. And so one of the ways that we kind of help try and bridge those gaps between employers and the state workforce agencies is we work with them and then we work on partnerships similar to the National Labor Exchange, obviously with DirectEmployers.

(06:26):

And the National Labor Exchange to me is really a great example to highlight here through the NLx, we help broker those services like the NLx job feed you guys have helped us learn about microsites and there’s job banks for both states, job seekers, employers, and really the public workforce system partners. And we kind of add in is kind of being that liaison to the state agencies regarding to NLx operations. And one of the things that we really do to help our membership, and I know from time to time we’ve shared with DirectEmployers as well, is we advocate on The Hill for our state members through our federal legislative priorities. We advise members on promising practices related to workforce as well as UI. We like DirectEmployers convene a little more conferences than DE does. We have four annual events and we know how much time and effort goes into that, but like you we realize that when you get your members together, that peer-to-peer exchange and face-to-face conversation really helps them the most. So we do at least four a year and then we also do provide both unemployment insurance and workforce technology products and projects to our members as well. So we kind of have a consulting side to go along with what we do on the policy side.

Shannon Offord (07:46):

Well, and you kind of beat me to some of my questions, which I appreciate as we talked about earlier. As I mentioned earlier in the intro, the NLx started back in 2007 through a partnership between NASWA and DirectEmployers. A lot of our audience may not be really that familiar with the NLx. I know I can talk about it for days, but since you’re our guest, can you talk a little bit about the NLx and just kind of its value it’s had over the last, I guess now 18 years?

Scott Sanders (08:15):

Yeah, since 2007. So it has come a long way. I know NASWA is excited to continue to build this partnership and the fact that you have partnered with us for that continued growth, it has helped NASWA grow as well. I think as you mentioned early on when I started NASWA, we had 35 employees. We’re about 135 at this point and a lot of that is due to the growth from the NLx. This partnership has really worked and I love the tagline that we’ve come up–To Connect Talent and Opportunity. We know that’s what employers want. We also know that’s what job seekers want. They want their talent to be recognized and really to grow. I love that the NLx offerings are being designed and use DE technology. I know you guys have a great insight into providing this platform. I love the fact that the jobs are, as we call deduped, so there aren’t multiple of the same job listing through the NLx.

(09:14):

I love the fact that we can use a little bit of NASWA’s expertise to help collect those and work with you guys to distribute those and really pull our members in. We do have several states that use the NLx as their sole platform and hopefully we’ll see more of that in the future, which means they appreciate it and they see the value. And then the nice thing is over the years we’ve come up with kind of new ideas and partnering with you and along with the NLx job feed, the NLx does offer that recruitment and job search related technology. It does coordinate events both between our members and your members that help the states, job seekers, employers and other workforce partners. And we’re looking forward to bringing some of our association partners into the NLx as well for them to potentially use it also. And then really just really helping us grow the overall market. And I think with the shifts in the federal government, there are federal government workers that are going to be looking for jobs as well, probably more now than there ever has been. So we’re hoping to make NLx one of the offerings for folks to use, and I know veterans is key to your mission as well as ours, so we’re hoping to help more veterans get reemployed also.

Shannon Offord (10:30):

I think it’s really cool that we’ve been able to provide a lot of the job content out to the state workforce agencies and also obviously to some federal portals as well. So definitely being able to work together to get that information into the hands of a lot of job seekers has been pretty rewarding. We talked a little bit or you mentioned some of the growth when DirectEmployers first partnered with NASWA, you guys are at 35 employees now. Obviously that’s ballooned four times that now. Can you talk a little bit about some of that growth and what’s kind of spurred the growth you guys have had here recently? I know part of that was NLx growth, but you guys are doing a lot of things outside of just the NLx.

Scott Sanders (11:13):

Yeah, we started to find our niche in kind of somewhat where DirectEmployers works with all of your members is we started putting our members first at the forefront and really going out and visiting them similar to how you guys go out and visit yours and see what is it they need, what do they need to do better to actually help the citizens of their states. And that’s where we have really ramped up in the events we offer. We also have ramped it up in terms of we do have workforce technology consulting that we do as well as unemployment insurance consulting. And by really going to the state workforce agencies seeing what they need, what we can bring to the table to help them out, that has really leveraged our growth and I know DE has partnered with us along the way and that I think is key for I think both of our entity successes is to make sure that our members are foremost in our minds and really find the tools that really solve their problems. And it really does come down to that time and talent and helping connect job seekers to employers. And that’s where I’m hoping in the next 10 years that we can really partner more with DE and really connect both sides of our houses together to really provide that platform for your members to grow and their employer searches as well as our states.

Shannon Offord (12:35):

Yeah, that’s a lot of our conversations right now is trying to figure out what that next 10 years is going to look like and how we can work together to really help employers and workforce. So obviously right now it’s an interesting time, just the workforce in general. Can you talk about some of the challenges some of the state workforce agencies may be facing and then maybe some of the opportunities that exist as well?

Scott Sanders (12:59):

Yeah, I think so. One of the key challenges that I think all of us are facing, and I know Shannon the last time we got together in your offices, we talked about it, is really the impact of artificial intelligence and what is that going to do in the workforce community, how is that going to affect how states are working, how our employers are working, how job seekers are working. And so I think that’s one of the pieces that I think we’re kind of on the forefront of that and we’re glad to have DE at our side as we continue to move through this. Obviously from our member’s perspective being state workforce agencies, funding is I think top of mind right now really I think across the whole governmental sphere as the federal government starts to make changes and you see that ripple down impact as it flows into the states and even on the employer side.

(13:50):

So I think that’s one many different things on the federal side that we look at and we help with our states in terms of responsiveness of federal agencies. So we work not only with the Department of Labor but also the Department of Education and also Child and Family Services, Health and Human Services. So that’s going to be key as the federal government starts to change their layout. So that’ll be key to be able to make sure we stay connected. Obviously we do offer some platforms that employers your members may not be aware of. We do have a platform called SIDES in the federal government world and state lots of acronyms, but it’s the State Information Data Exchange System that lets employers as well as third-party administrators communicate with the states on an electronic basis when it comes down to unemployment insurance claims. And that’s done at a no cost.

(14:44):

So hopefully we can get some of your members to take advantage of that. We also have a couple of initiatives underway that are more in the unemployment insurance technology world and we kind of have an open UI initiative to really containerize all the systems. When you have 50 states, they’re operating 50 different systems that are probably in 50 different year spans all the way back to COBOL, all the way up to the newest generation of work right now. And so that’s key to be able to help them do that. And then really one of the things we’ve been building is kind of a multi-state data collaborative that we’re hoping to share with your members on how we’re pulling together data from states, is it across the state lines to show the successes of programs and really the migration of talents. And one of the things that you guys have really helped us launch more recently is the National Labor Exchange Research Hub, which will really just accelerate showing what the market trends are and how to make sure that your members are aware of that as well as they look for their future candidates.

Shannon Offord (15:55):

And I know the Research Hub’s been a real big focus of the efforts that we’ve been working on over the last several years actually. Seems like that research hub is becoming more well known and that information is being able to get out there more and more. Hopefully we can get a lot more employers utilizing that information as well. You talk about the advocacy and your time on The Hill. Can you talk about maybe some of the priorities that NASWA has as it relates to maybe around legislative issues?

Scott Sanders (16:27):

Absolutely. That is one of the keys, and I know I’m always mindful of changes going on at OFCCP, which really affect your members as well as the Employment and Training Administration where we spend a lot of our time and effort, but our advocacy issues really span the whole workforce arena. It has to do with not only data, it has to do with employees, it has to do with employers typically every year. And we’ve done this now for almost 10 years. We do put together legislative priorities that are on our website at www.naswa.org, but our policies really are driven probably like your members would do from a grassroots effort and that all of our agencies formulate policy committees. And these committees get together four times a year and typically in the fall we start to come together to put together our next year’s priorities. And they deal with mainly workforce development flexibility, enhanced services, enhanced unemployment insurance, program reform, support for technology, infrastructure, data needs, and workforce labor market trends.

(17:40):

That’s part of it is to really pull all of this together so then we can go and talk to folks on The Hill about it. We take a little bit of a different advocacy approach in that we deal with typically heads of the committees themselves because they really set the agenda for the committees in House Ways and Means, Education and Workforce as well as Senate and Finance and then Senate HELP, which is Health, Education, Labor and Pensions. And it’s key to make those connections and leverage those individuals that are leading those committees and their staff back to the states and then really bring to them stories of success in the workforce arena that tie back in employers, which a lot of those employers are your members as well. And highlight the successes of the partnerships together. So we have their support also.

Shannon Offord (18:31):

So I guess on The Hill, obviously some interest around the NLx too, obviously.

Scott Sanders (18:37):

Absolutely. They want to know in each of their states what are the trends that they see from the employment market, what are the skills that are needed? And DE, you, and your other workers there have helped us really hone in on what are the things we should pulling out of job listings to really build this platform. And that’s been key to show them how individuals are being upskilled and what skills they need to be upskilled into. And I really think our partnership has really been able to help us highlight that through the NLx Research Hub.

Shannon Offord (19:09):

It’s so funny, every time we get on a call or I spend time with you, even though obviously from the DE side, I lead the NLx, but I learn so much from you every time I talk to you. So I’m sure that a lot of people who may not be as familiar with the NLx or NASWA as I’m, they’re probably learning a ton from you right now. So definitely appreciate that. So obviously we’re in the process of renewing our partnership through 2037, and I know we’ve talked about this at length, we’ve had several meetings around this. Interested to see what you’re going to say around this, but what are some of the things you hope to accomplish over the next 12 years, I guess, of this partnership?

Scott Sanders (19:50):

So first I should have put in a nice plug for DEAMcon coming up. You were very gracious to invite me to come present out in Arizona and I’m looking forward to that and looking forward to meeting more of your members. I think the last time I may have chatted with them was back in San Francisco a number of years ago, but I think as we’ve sat around the table with you as well as others at DE, we know things that we want to see the NLx do moving forward. And I think some of the priorities that I have, and I know you guys are very supportive, I know Tom’s very supportive as well, is really kind of grow the number and variety of jobs / employers in the feed. I think that is key to draw in individuals to actually look for work. I think the more members that you can have in terms of your employers there will help really grow that.

(20:46):

I think taking data and then enhancing that value into the NLx Research Hub, I kind of see the NLx Research Hub maybe moving far enough along that it is similar to the ADP release of jobs prior to the Department of Labor that if we can get to the point where we can roll out, here are the skill sets that employers need now and what they see in three to five years that will help drive individuals, making sure they’re skilled up correctly. So looking forward to us building that partnership. I think the other thing is for us to continue to build the relationship, not only between the two of us, but also would love to see us branch out and maybe bring some of the other associations that we work with to come into DirectEmployers that deal with health and social services. But with voc rehab, which I know you guys are doing some work there as well, as well as in the higher ed community that we started to get into and in the data world because I think both of us realize the key to success in our growth is taking the data and making it work for us and making it work for your members and then really modernizing all the capabilities that we have in the analytics recruitment offerings.

(22:03):

Who knows what AI might do for us in that world, but we’re really looking forward to being joined at the hip with DE to really take those necessary steps forward.

Shannon Offord (22:13):

You mentioned the types of jobs that are in there in the NLx, and I know we’ve just recently started doing some work with the whole Build Submarine, so we’ve now got that content in the NLx different maybe than some of the content that we’ve had before and then obviously some other areas that we’ve been able to bring some content in as well. You’re right, I think about bringing other associations together with what we’re doing to try to see what that may look like moving forward.

Scott Sanders (22:42):

I think one of the other things that we’ve been hearing from Congress is that they’re liable to put work search requirements on several of the social support programs. And I think that will be key to be able to have more job offerings for individuals to look at where they’re not in that duplicated arena and they can trust that the jobs have been vetted out, especially as right now as we see lots of federal workers unemployed, so want to make sure that they’re aware. And I know we were touching on that the last time we got together to build a site where those federal workers could go and look for sustainable employment as well.

Shannon Offord (23:19):

And it seems like a lot of states are interested in potentially hiring some of those federal workers.

Scott Sanders (23:24):

Absolutely. And I know when I was in DC a couple of weeks ago, even in Union Station where our office is near Capitol Hill, the state of New York has got a lot of brochures up in placards and they have the Statue of Liberty saying, “We want you to come work for us.” And I think the NLx is a great platform for job seekers to go to actually find meaningful employment. So looking forward to continue to flesh that out for job seekers to use.

Shannon Offord (23:51):

Yeah, I definitely agree with you. When I was in New York just last week, I saw some of that same activity from the state, obviously trying to get some of those federal workers. You talked a little bit about the events that you host, and I know one of the big things that you guys have been trying to work on is trying to get more employers to some of those events, particularly the Veterans Conference and also your Annual Summit. Can you talk a little bit about those events and why employers should look at attending? You guys obviously will be at DEAMcon in our Exhibit Hall or Demo Hall, so we’re obviously looking forward to having you there. Let’s talk a little bit about the Vet Conference and the Annual Summits in particular.

Scott Sanders (24:35):

Absolutely. And by the way, thank you to DE for being a sponsor at the Veterans Conference. I think you guys may have been a sponsor all the way through that. We’ve been running these in DC. I look at the Veterans Conference as really a workforce conference with a vets spin on it. So obviously we have the majority of the attendees are veterans that are helping veterans look for work. I know personally when my son exited the Navy after going through the Naval Academy and then serving his eight years in the Navy and we helped utilize the NLx to look for work, but it’s really, if we can get employers along with state side by side talking about the successes that they have and partnering and helping veterans get reemployed, I think that pulls more vets into the situation. We do know the Training Assistance Programs that’s going across the us.

(25:27):

The more that we can get employers connected to that, I think it really shortens that path for employers and really veterans to be reemployed. And so that’s really a key. We’ll probably have about 300 folks at the Vets Conference. You also touched on our Summit. That is the first week of September in Dallas. Last year in New Orleans, we had over a thousand people there. And really what we like to do is showcase in a lot of our sessions and our breakouts is employers partnered side by side with the states on successful programs they’ve run, whether it is say hiring welders, whether it’s hiring ex-offenders, whether it’s hiring high skilled individuals, but it’s really to show that and demonstrate that both employers and states can work together to really fill their talent pool. And that’s something I think I would like to do more. I know some of our members come to DEAMcon.

(26:25):

I would like to get more there as well as we’d love to get more of your members not only to the Vets Conference, but also to our Summit. We do also have a Winter Policy forum every February that is entirely policy focused. And we do have an individual that kind of comes and does an hour long talk on what’s really hot on The Hill and what’s going on in DC and it benefits not only employers but also our members. And so that’s important as well. And then this year we are doing a webinar on Gen AI partnering with Microsoft Philanthropic Group to really help roll that out as well. And so I know that’s something that DE is aware of as well, is really helping employers work in the AI community.

Shannon Offord (27:09):

Well, thank you for that. You guys put on great events. I mean, they are very well attended, very well organized. And the Vet Conference, I mean, it’s really a who’s who and the veteran space. And I would definitely recommend any employer out there who’s looking to recruit veterans and make connections to come to that event. I mean, it’s really, really, really well done. And in the Summit, obviously last year was awesome. So it just seems like that event keeps getting bigger and bigger every year.

Scott Sanders (27:37):

Yeah, I think the first year that I was with NASWA, we had about 250 people up in Burlington, Vermont for, it was called the Annual Meeting, but it was really the precursor to the Summit. And now to be over a thousand people similar to you, you guys have got that secret sauce going with your members and then really that’s pulling everybody in. So I’m looking forward to being at DEAMcon and obviously having you at the Vets Conference in the Summit, and hopefully we can pull in some of your members as well.

Shannon Offord (28:05):

Well definitely looking forward to that. Those are two events I do my best not to miss. Before we close. We usually do kind of a rapid fire, just some fun questions so people get to know you a little bit better. I’ll ask you three questions, super easy hopefully. And then we will close. Favorite activity outside of work.

Scott Sanders (28:25):

Being a grandparent.

Shannon Offord (28:27):

And you have your grandkids today, two of them today,

Scott Sanders (28:30):

That’s right, two of them, five and three. And we just picked up two more in the transfer portal. So one was born three weeks ago, one was born two days ago. Great to spend time with family. And when I’m not with family, I want to probably take up the golf game again and maybe get you out on the course as well, Shannon.

Shannon Offord (28:48):

I don’t know if you want to do that. I struggle on a golf course on the bowling alley. Okay. But golf course, not so hot.

Scott Sanders (28:57):

Okay.

Shannon Offord (28:59):

Favorite movie.

Scott Sanders (29:00):

I could watch A Few Good Men or either one of the Top Gun movies multiple times over and over, and my lovely wife just shakes her head when she walks in.

Shannon Offord (29:11):

Both series have very quotable lines in both of those series – so…

Scott Sanders (29:16):

Shannon, you can’t handle the truth, buddy.

Shannon Offord (29:22):

Alright, last rapid fire question. Favorite fast food restaurant?

Scott Sanders (29:31):

That’s probably a more challenging question, Shannon. Probably Chick-fil-A or Chipotle, so has to end in the la so Chipotle or Chick-fil-A. And obviously Chick-fil-A is not open on Sunday, so I guess you get a Chipotle on Sunday.

Shannon Offord (29:46):

I think if you see my DoorDash record, that would show Chipotle and Chick-fil-A pretty much nonstop.

Scott Sanders (29:53):

Awesome. Those are good, Shannon, I appreciate those all unscripted too. I love it.

Shannon Offord (30:00):

Obviously, it’s been great having you, the podcast, Scott, it’s always fun talking to you. We’re obviously looking forward to having a lot more years of partnership with NASWA always learn so much from you. Thanks for joining us today. For those of you out there who are listening, if you want to learn more about NASWA, you can visit NASWA.org, so it’s just N-A-S-W-A dot O-R-G. For any DE members out there that want to connect with NASWA, you can either go through myself, which is just Shannon@DirectEmployers.org, or you can reach out to the Membership Team directly. But Scott, again, thanks for joining us today and I hope you enjoy your weekend with the grandkids.

Scott Sanders (30:42):

I sure will. Shannon, thanks for the invite, and so looking forward to being with you and the team out in beautiful Scottsdale. I’m ready to get out of this cold weather we’re having in the Midwest right now. So looking forward to it.

Shannon Offord (30:52):

Seems like we can’t get out of the fifties, so…

Scott Sanders (30:54):

Amen to that. So thanks for the offer and the invitation, Shannon, and really enjoyed our conversation.

Shannon Offord (30:59):

Thank you. So did I. Thank you.

DirectEmployers Association (31:02):

Thank you for tuning in for another episode of the DE Talk podcast. Stay connected with DirectEmployers on Facebook, Twitter, and Linkedin, or subscribe to receive updates straight to your inbox by visiting DirectEmployers.org/Subscribe where you’ll receive notifications of new episodes, webinars, events, and more.